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Porsche design: could VW be a positive influence?

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Old Oct 11, 2010 | 01:26 PM
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Default Porsche design: could VW be a positive influence?

I've never been crazy about the idea of VW owning Porsche; however, it's a done deal and all we can do is hope. In my case, I hope this article bodes well for Porsche's future. Wouldn't it be ironic if VW were able to get Porsche's design lexicon more focused on traditional styling elements? De Silva knows what he's doing; if you look at the Lambos or his recent Leica M9 makeover, he clearly understands the importance of a marque's visual lexicon.
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Volkswagen's de'Silva aims for positive influence on Porsche styling
By LUCA CIFERRI, AUTOMOTIVE NEWS

Volkswagen Group design director Walter de'Silva hopes to add "something positive" to the design of Porsche's new models, beginning with the Cajun SUV.

Porsche AG is set to become Volkswagen AG's 10th brand and Porsche design director Michael Mauer now reports to de'Silva, along with the heads of the styling centers of the other VW group brands such as Skoda, Seat, Bentley and Lamborghini.

De'Silva said he has just started working with Mauer and their relationship is off to a good start.

"I really hope to be able to add something positive to Porsche's new models, which will remain coherent with the great tradition of Porsche,” de'Silva said in an interview at the Paris auto show.

De'Silva said the designs of the successors to the current Porsche Boxster and 911 sports cars are already completed, so "the Cajun will be the first new Porsche created under my influence.”

The Cajun SUV, which is due in 2014, is part of Porsche's plans to expand its four-model lineup to double unit sales in the medium term to 150,000.

Besides the Cajun, Porsche is also working on a "baby" Boxster car that is expected to go on sale in 2013 and will be based on one of De'Silva's pet projects, the VW BlueSport, which was shown as a concept at the 2009 Detroit auto show.

De'Silva did not elaborate on how he will influence Porsche design. The styling of the Porsche Cayenne and new Panamera sedan has met with criticism in some quarters.

No more 'vulgar' Porsches?

Paolo Tuminelli, CEO of Goodbrands GmbH, a brand and marketing consultancy based in Cologne, Germany, said the styling of the recently introduced second-generation Cayenne and Panamera "confused and vulgarized" Porsche's image.

He believes de'Silva will immediately abandon such designs and return the brand to "classic elements reinterpreted in a much cleaner way, as he successfully did with the 2006 Lamborghini Miura concept.”

Tuminelli said de'Silva's taste for balanced proportions, simplicity and fine detail execution will be a plus for Porsche.

Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2010...#ixzz124G4pdJu
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Old Oct 11, 2010 | 01:48 PM
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As long as Porsche was a stand-alone brand it had to build things like the Cayenne and the Panamera in order to broaden the range, sell more units, develop economies of scale etc.

I believe the merger with VW will allow Porsche a much sharper focus on its sporting heritage. VW has enough SUV's and 4-door cars.

I think we are going to see some spectacular Porsches in the coming years.
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Old Oct 11, 2010 | 01:58 PM
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I don't see why Porsche would need a smaller SUV. The current one is not exactly Huge, smaller SUVs are just tall cars. Little function would be added. In fact, more compromises would need to be made. I understand needing to make $ to keep the brand flowing. But there are little economies of scale with many different manufacturing lines. If you can re-use parts, or lines to build portions of multiple vehicles ,then you gain some economy. Diluting the lineup is usually a way to get more "entry level" cars into the fold. In the hopes of gaining new customers to the brand who will eventually buy up the line at a later date. -my 2 cents.
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Old Oct 11, 2010 | 02:04 PM
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Its about the coin as always.

Porsche has already dumbed down their brand via the Cayenne and Panamera, another SUV and cheaper sports car is not going to make it any worse. Both the Cayenne and Panamera's bodies are made in a VW plant already with other VWs.
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Old Oct 11, 2010 | 02:19 PM
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I hate the de Silva Audi/Mack truck front grille so I ain't holding out any hope for good things with his influence on Porsche.
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Old Oct 11, 2010 | 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by TerpsRED
I don't see why Porsche would need a smaller SUV. The current one is not exactly Huge, smaller SUVs are just tall cars. Little function would be added. In fact, more compromises would need to be made. I understand needing to make $ to keep the brand flowing. But there are little economies of scale with many different manufacturing lines. If you can re-use parts, or lines to build portions of multiple vehicles ,then you gain some economy. Diluting the lineup is usually a way to get more "entry level" cars into the fold. In the hopes of gaining new customers to the brand who will eventually buy up the line at a later date. -my 2 cents.
Its all about the fuel economy numbers...Porsche can't use the VW fleet to average their numbers and are trapped into producing smaller and more efficient cars like the BlueTec and Cajun, and to a larger extent the 918 Spyder. Has little to do with entry level and economies of scale, yet.
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Old Oct 11, 2010 | 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by LlBr
This is all fluff! He's talking 'newspeak.' Don't suck in anything he's saying!

If Porsche will be evermore aiming at a broader market the cars will have to look less and less intelligent and sophisticated more and more dumbed down and easy to grasp.

Need Proof? Look at non-mass market cars like RR and Bentley: did they go trendy? Do special-market-niche cars Lambo and Ferrari go trendy? No, they go their own crazy route.

Why do these brands ignore mass mentality stylewise? Because people who buy them either have brains concerned with aesthetic/design masterpieces of avant garde or classic nature OR they mimic people with such brains. Why do people with money and NO brains mimic people with money AND brains? Because the cars' are in the stratosphere of society (not mass-markets).

Now consider mass market appeal: How long can Porsche hold out when the competition Porsche is seeking out thinks this Audi is "awesome" looking? (attached photo)

Get ready for the future: Bye Bye "form follows function," and "classic Porsche timeless ideals," for what they are today: believable distant cherished memories.
I'm sure Porsche, oops, VW, will be spending some significant funds to convince us all otherwise. Be prepared for an onslaught of old Porsche racing and historic videos...but I am in total agreement with you on this one. I think the Porsche run in the US was from 1950-2010, 60 great years for the last independent automaker in the world...now its gone.
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Old Oct 11, 2010 | 02:25 PM
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This is all fluff! He's talking 'newspeak.' Don't suck in anything he's saying!

If Porsche will be evermore aiming at a broader market the cars will have to look less and less intelligent and sophisticated more and more dumbed down and easy to grasp.

Need Proof? Look at non-mass market cars like RR and Bentley: did they go trendy? Do special-market-niche cars Lambo and Ferrari go trendy? No, they go their own crazy route.

Why do these brands ignore mass mentality stylewise? Because people who buy them either have brains concerned with aesthetic/design masterpieces of avant garde or classic nature OR they mimic people with such brains. Why do people with money and NO brains mimic people with money AND brains? Because the cars' are in the stratosphere of society (not mass-markets).

Now consider mass market appeal: How long can Porsche hold out when the competition Porsche is seeking out thinks this Audi is "awesome" looking? (attached photo)

Get ready for the future: Bye Bye "form follows function," and "classic Porsche timeless ideals," for what they are today: believable distant cherished memories.
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xxxaudi 911.jpg (100.5 KB, 139 views)
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Old Oct 11, 2010 | 02:27 PM
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Here's some more visual evidence for your edification (either way).

Why would the 911 NOT go in this direction? VW guy above says they got "criticism" for Panamera. What CAN they do about it? NOTHING because they want to sell cars! They'll go more this way with the 911.

Which direction am I talking about? The corvette styling morphed radically and unashamedly following trends thru the years just to sell cars: get it?
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Old Oct 11, 2010 | 02:34 PM
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I have a question: Why didn't this iteration of the Beetle succeed?

Could it be the same reason the "Cajun" won't succeed?

Because of looks? I don't know, I'm seriously asking.

OTOH, Is Porsche is betting people will buy a car that's KNOWN and immediately recognizable as a Porsche rather than a trendy-adverse-looking car that looks the same but isn't?

Interesting. Oops! I guess I'm all wrong above. Nevermind.
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Old Oct 11, 2010 | 02:46 PM
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Just remember the Cayenne was ugly and they sold tons of them.
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Old Oct 11, 2010 | 03:07 PM
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Not if they use the same brainpower that went into the 914!!
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Old Oct 11, 2010 | 05:04 PM
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As much as I wanted Porsche to remain independant, you cannot ignore the fact that their design totally lacked during the past decade. The 997 is kinda of an exception. I haven't found ANY of the other cars produced stunning, and most were plain UGLY (Cayenne, Panamera!).

If VW ownership can benefit the design of Porsche cars, similarly to how Lamborghini benefited, I'd be ALL FOR THE CHANGE! Lamborghini was dead in the water, with OLD uninspiring cars, with poor performance and they totally turned it around, after Audi ownership, with Gallardo and Murcielago!

The one thing I am worried about is the incredible overlap of models in the VW family. Porsche, Audi, and Lamborghini are kinda fighting for the same customers, there's Porsche, VW, and Audi SUVs built on the same platform, and who knows which VW car is basing the new Porsche line-up?! Something's gotto give!

Last edited by alexb76; Oct 11, 2010 at 09:44 PM.
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Old Oct 11, 2010 | 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by LlBr
Here's some more visual evidence for your edification (either way).

Why would the 911 NOT go in this direction? VW guy above says they got "criticism" for Panamera. What CAN they do about it? NOTHING because they want to sell cars! They'll go more this way with the 911.

Which direction am I talking about? The corvette styling morphed radically and unashamedly following trends thru the years just to sell cars: get it?
WOW, great pull on the Panamera / Vette styling comparison, never would have put those 2 together.
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Old Oct 11, 2010 | 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TerpsRED
I don't see why Porsche would need a smaller SUV. The current one is not exactly Huge, smaller SUVs are just tall cars. Little function would be added.
Americans love huge cars, so it might make little sense here, but the rest of the world likes small cars so it might go over well there. Porsche's primary markets now are Europe and China. It's also probably partly about CAFE.

Its all about the fuel economy numbers...Porsche can't use the VW fleet to average their numbers and are trapped into producing smaller and more efficient cars like the BlueTec and Cajun, and to a larger extent the 918 Spyder. Has little to do with entry level and economies of scale, yet.
I see this quote a lot about the 918 but it's not really true - there's no way that the 918 will ever sell enough to affect CAFE. It's purely a "halo car" for trying to redefine the Porsche brand as "green sports cars" , it's not for CAFE.

A small entry level sports car based on the BlueSport would sell enough to help CAFE, as well as meeting Porsche's target of doubling total sales numbers.
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