Car and Driver Depressing News
12-29-2009, 01:26 AM
#16
I don't really care too much about lap times with the C2S. I kept my S2000 for track days/autocrossing.
If Porsche stuffed a GT3 engine in the Boxster Spyder I'd be on that like a fat kid on a Twinkie.
If Porsche stuffed a GT3 engine in the Boxster Spyder I'd be on that like a fat kid on a Twinkie.
12-29-2009, 01:33 AM
#17
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The Vette is a poor mans sports car? They can get up there in price too. Some people ante up all they can to get a entry level Vette b/c they're psyched to finally get something they've dreamed of. Others can buy whatever they want, live comfortably with no debt well within their means. I'm proud, personally, to be associated with them all...it's frankly a great community.
Can a C6 beat a 911 around a track? Aside from the 2% of us who race, who cares? They're both fun, have great road feel, but definitely different dynamics. The 911 is definitely tighter, more finely tuned, and more precise. The Vette has more grunt, less road feel, but still has tons of grip. Car guys, however, are car guys. Some of my best friends have 911's, one has a '08 Turbo, some have Vettes, some have M3's, and one just got a Camaro. I respect and appreciate them all.
Can a C6 beat a 911 around a track? Aside from the 2% of us who race, who cares? They're both fun, have great road feel, but definitely different dynamics. The 911 is definitely tighter, more finely tuned, and more precise. The Vette has more grunt, less road feel, but still has tons of grip. Car guys, however, are car guys. Some of my best friends have 911's, one has a '08 Turbo, some have Vettes, some have M3's, and one just got a Camaro. I respect and appreciate them all.
Gary
12-29-2009, 08:55 AM
#18
Still plays with cars.
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The 911 S is faster than a Cayman S. I suspect the driver was not experienced in the 911. A Cayman is easier to drive fast than a 911 unless one is aware of how to make a 911 go fast. A Cayman S suffers from lack of brakes compared to the C2S as well as being down on power (deliberate on the part of PAG).
12-29-2009, 11:30 AM
#19
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That test is a joke - there's no way a 997.2S w PDK will turn the same laps as an M3 or a Cayman S. The driver may not know how to drive a 911. I've owned an M3 - its a great car but its handling and brakes are not in the same league as the 997.2S.
12-29-2009, 11:48 AM
#20
I've read enough. That's it.
For Sale;
Weird blue color '06 Porsche C2S.
Almost an antique !
However too slow to get out of it's own way.
CHEAP !!!
Please bring any offers and cash. (lowball offers will be considered)
Need to sell ASAP to make room for new 'vette !!
Thanks,
Fast Phil the 'Vette Dude...
For Sale;
Weird blue color '06 Porsche C2S.
Almost an antique !
However too slow to get out of it's own way.
CHEAP !!!
Please bring any offers and cash. (lowball offers will be considered)
Need to sell ASAP to make room for new 'vette !!
Thanks,
Fast Phil the 'Vette Dude...
12-29-2009, 12:11 PM
#21
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Am getting ROASTED by my BMW buddies overthis. I replied w/ Ring lap times.
e92 M3 8:05
Cadillac CTS-V 7:59
05 911S 7:59
09 911S 7:50.
C6 Z06 7:42.9
Nissan GT-R 7:26.7
www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html
What gives??? Different cars suited better for different tracks or did they have no idea how to drive a 911?
e92 M3 8:05
Cadillac CTS-V 7:59
05 911S 7:59
09 911S 7:50.
C6 Z06 7:42.9
Nissan GT-R 7:26.7
www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html
What gives??? Different cars suited better for different tracks or did they have no idea how to drive a 911?
12-29-2009, 12:17 PM
#22
Race Car
Let's see. A magazine test showing your car as top driver is accurate but when they show it less than top, they are flawed. 
The fact is, a good driver can drive most any car faster around the track than 99% of drivers in the best handling car. Focus on your driving skills and not the car's ability with someone else at the wheel.
Who has more skill as a marksman? A guy with a rifle and manual scope or a guy with the same rifle with a computerzed scope both hitting the same target from a mile away?
If all you are looking to do is be competitive in the race regardless of your skills, get a car with all the "sissy" controls like AWD, stabilization and wide slicks that can sprint faster than other cars in the straights. Maybe auto pilot is coming in the next few years and we can all claim to have great driving skills.
Races used to be about the skill of the driver. Now it's all about the cars.
The fact is, a good driver can drive most any car faster around the track than 99% of drivers in the best handling car. Focus on your driving skills and not the car's ability with someone else at the wheel.
Who has more skill as a marksman? A guy with a rifle and manual scope or a guy with the same rifle with a computerzed scope both hitting the same target from a mile away?
If all you are looking to do is be competitive in the race regardless of your skills, get a car with all the "sissy" controls like AWD, stabilization and wide slicks that can sprint faster than other cars in the straights. Maybe auto pilot is coming in the next few years and we can all claim to have great driving skills.
Races used to be about the skill of the driver. Now it's all about the cars.
12-29-2009, 12:35 PM
#23
12-29-2009, 12:45 PM
#24
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I guess the dew is off the lilly, at least according to the new Car and Driver Lightning Lap test run at VIR.
Porsche 997 S with PDK had identical times as compared with the Cayman S PDK, 3:05.8 sec. Thats only good for mid pack. BMW M3 at 3:05.4, and the new Corvette Grand Sport at 2:58.8. Corvette ZR1 blows away the pack at 2.51.8.
Ouch! I wonder what the GT-3 would have run.
After the recent Excellence article with the ZR1 beating the GT2, and now this, it looks like Porsche is going to have to step up it's game.
Porsche 997 S with PDK had identical times as compared with the Cayman S PDK, 3:05.8 sec. Thats only good for mid pack. BMW M3 at 3:05.4, and the new Corvette Grand Sport at 2:58.8. Corvette ZR1 blows away the pack at 2.51.8.
Ouch! I wonder what the GT-3 would have run.
After the recent Excellence article with the ZR1 beating the GT2, and now this, it looks like Porsche is going to have to step up it's game.
12-29-2009, 03:01 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
I've read enough. That's it.
For Sale;
Weird blue color '06 Porsche C2S.
Almost an antique !
However too slow to get out of it's own way.
CHEAP !!!
Please bring any offers and cash. (lowball offers will be considered)
Need to sell ASAP to make room for new 'vette !!
Thanks,
Fast Phil the 'Vette Dude...
For Sale;
Weird blue color '06 Porsche C2S.
Almost an antique !
However too slow to get out of it's own way.
CHEAP !!!
Please bring any offers and cash. (lowball offers will be considered)
Need to sell ASAP to make room for new 'vette !!
Thanks,
Fast Phil the 'Vette Dude...
12-29-2009, 03:01 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
. However, I will make a generalization about the women who
like Corvette owners:
Porsche Women: Polished, well spoken, well dressed, excellent backgrounds.
Corvette Women: Party girls, tramp stamps, died blond hair, tight
jeans, excessive drinking, love guys with pick up trucks,
have sketchy backgrounds, lots of makeup, think guys
with 18" arms are sexy.
12-29-2009, 03:03 PM
#28
Race Car
I would never make a generalization about Corvette drivers .
However, I will make a generalization about the women who
like Corvette owners:
Porsche Women: Polished, well spoken, well dressed, excellent backgrounds.
Corvette Women: Party girls, tramp stamps, died blond hair, tight
jeans, excessive drinking, love guys with pick up trucks,
have sketchy backgrounds, lots of makeup, think guys
with 18" arms are sexy.
. However, I will make a generalization about the women who
like Corvette owners:
Porsche Women: Polished, well spoken, well dressed, excellent backgrounds.
Corvette Women: Party girls, tramp stamps, died blond hair, tight
jeans, excessive drinking, love guys with pick up trucks,
have sketchy backgrounds, lots of makeup, think guys
with 18" arms are sexy.
I guess you could also make a generailzation about a guy who relies on his car to attract woman.
12-29-2009, 03:09 PM
#29
Race Director
While I agree that optically it would have been nice to see better performance numbers, it's my opinion that when everything is factored in the 911 would be on top of the list. I think its the best new car <$100k.
I knew that the cayman handled better than the 911 after my 1st drive.
I knew that the cayman handled better than the 911 after my 1st drive.
12-29-2009, 03:51 PM
#30
Let's stop with the stereotypes please!!! I've owned four Corvettes in my lifetime and now own a 993 and a 997. I don't fit either stereotype and neither, believe you me, does the wife.
Even though I didn't see the Car and Driver article I have to applaud Excellence for what was a very well written article and a thorough test of each car's abilities. The Corvette beat the GT2 where it counts and could obviously do it all day long. The fact that Excellence had the ***** to publish this says a lot about their journalistic integrity and courage.
The Corvette really is a fantastic car- it's very good looking (at least IMO) and offers a shocking amount of performance for the money. In turn you get a lousy interior, some cheesy GM parts, throughly terrible GM service and the social stigma of a well to do plumber. But the money you save can buy a round the world vacation, a few years worth of DEs, a first class F1 event and a nice stereo.
Depends on what you want.
The good thing is Porsche might say to itself- we're getting our clocks cleaned and need to offer more for the money- perhaps zere is a rezon our sales are in ze gutter. Besides, when the Corvette beats a GT2 and a Cadillac has a Panamera for lunch at less than half the price you have to applaud good 'ol American ingenuity.
Even though I didn't see the Car and Driver article I have to applaud Excellence for what was a very well written article and a thorough test of each car's abilities. The Corvette beat the GT2 where it counts and could obviously do it all day long. The fact that Excellence had the ***** to publish this says a lot about their journalistic integrity and courage.
The Corvette really is a fantastic car- it's very good looking (at least IMO) and offers a shocking amount of performance for the money. In turn you get a lousy interior, some cheesy GM parts, throughly terrible GM service and the social stigma of a well to do plumber. But the money you save can buy a round the world vacation, a few years worth of DEs, a first class F1 event and a nice stereo.
Depends on what you want.
The good thing is Porsche might say to itself- we're getting our clocks cleaned and need to offer more for the money- perhaps zere is a rezon our sales are in ze gutter. Besides, when the Corvette beats a GT2 and a Cadillac has a Panamera for lunch at less than half the price you have to applaud good 'ol American ingenuity.