997.2: Anyone chipped already ?
11-21-2009, 08:26 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
997.2: Anyone chipped already ?
Or with modified ECU ? (call it as you wish)
I've seen Evomsit coming first, then GIAC, Softronic, etc..
There's the debate if sending the ECU is the only real modification (as a whole new program is installed) or if OBD tuning is acceptable (asmaller file is written on top of the stock file, but it can be erased at the dealer with any factory update from Porsche ?)
Wheter X or Y, has any of you with 997.2 modified the ECU ? If yes, which option and did you feel any improvement ?
I've seen Evomsit coming first, then GIAC, Softronic, etc..
There's the debate if sending the ECU is the only real modification (as a whole new program is installed) or if OBD tuning is acceptable (asmaller file is written on top of the stock file, but it can be erased at the dealer with any factory update from Porsche ?)
Wheter X or Y, has any of you with 997.2 modified the ECU ? If yes, which option and did you feel any improvement ?
11-21-2009, 08:34 PM
#2
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I havent chipped yet and I probably wont. The improvement probably wouldnt be felt by your butt dyno. You probably only be able to tell with a Dyno session or lots of lap times. I dont think Porsche is going to leave a whole lot on the table with these cars.
HOWEVER if I was going to I would go to Sharkwerks.com or GMGracing.com to find out whats available.
They found out with the 997.1 and 997.1 GT3s there wasnt much left on the table. BUT with the new 9A1 motor we really dont know that much so there COULD be some significant power left.
I do have a sharkwerks bypass pipe and the biggest gains will probably be felt by weight loss.
HOWEVER if I was going to I would go to Sharkwerks.com or GMGracing.com to find out whats available.
They found out with the 997.1 and 997.1 GT3s there wasnt much left on the table. BUT with the new 9A1 motor we really dont know that much so there COULD be some significant power left.
I do have a sharkwerks bypass pipe and the biggest gains will probably be felt by weight loss.
11-21-2009, 09:48 PM
#4
Nordschleife Master
I have a lot of respect for Weissach and little respect for 2-bit outfits who care little for the longevity of our cars. Thus my answer is no.
11-22-2009, 12:32 AM
#5
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The wissach answer seems to be to change the intake manifold, probably like Varioram as in 993, this is what they have done in the 911 Sport Classic to help increase power to 408 bhp/300KW
http://germancarscene.com/2009/09/02...-videos-added/
http://germancarscene.com/2009/09/02...-videos-added/
11-22-2009, 04:54 PM
#6
Three Wheelin'
Since the ECU seems to know what I had for lunch yesterday there's no chance I'm going to mess w/ the engine on this car until the warranty has expired.
11-22-2009, 05:44 PM
#7
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It's ironic. Everyone says "if there was any more power to be had from these cars, Porsche would have given it to us..." And then Porsche releases a new intake, software, etc. to wring more power and torque out of our cars (ie: X51).
The key with software for me is that it has to be invisible and I have to be able to revert to the original file. Not easy to do these days with the new 997.2 ECU. I would not remove my ECU to send somewhere - big job and leaves evidence.
So, I like the concept behind Softronic. They pull a copy of the original file in your ECU, flash in the new performance one. All done by the OBD port - so no removing anything. If you want, you can pull "out" the performance file and put back in the original one - before going to the dealer, etc.
We have decades of history with performance software - think Dinan, Conforti, etc. with BMW. I've never heard of 1 issue where there's been a negative impact on a car, that warranty has been refused, etc.
The big question is whether it's worth it. For most, the answer is probably no, but then why did you get a Porsche instead of something else? Or why did you get the S instead of the base? Me, I track extensively and so even a gain of 15-20 HP/TQ is well worth it. I know on my 997.1 the Softronic made a difference on the track. Some may say it is minor, but it made the difference between gaining on a fellow driver and not being able to.
The key with software for me is that it has to be invisible and I have to be able to revert to the original file. Not easy to do these days with the new 997.2 ECU. I would not remove my ECU to send somewhere - big job and leaves evidence.
So, I like the concept behind Softronic. They pull a copy of the original file in your ECU, flash in the new performance one. All done by the OBD port - so no removing anything. If you want, you can pull "out" the performance file and put back in the original one - before going to the dealer, etc.
We have decades of history with performance software - think Dinan, Conforti, etc. with BMW. I've never heard of 1 issue where there's been a negative impact on a car, that warranty has been refused, etc.
The big question is whether it's worth it. For most, the answer is probably no, but then why did you get a Porsche instead of something else? Or why did you get the S instead of the base? Me, I track extensively and so even a gain of 15-20 HP/TQ is well worth it. I know on my 997.1 the Softronic made a difference on the track. Some may say it is minor, but it made the difference between gaining on a fellow driver and not being able to.
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11-22-2009, 10:04 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the replies !
The idea of this post was to see why almost nobody has chipped / modified their ECU on their 997.2
I know with turbo cars the gains are much bigger and for this reason much more owners of 996TT or 997TT chip their cars
But it seems almost nobody chips their N/A 997.2
The idea of this post was to see why almost nobody has chipped / modified their ECU on their 997.2
I know with turbo cars the gains are much bigger and for this reason much more owners of 996TT or 997TT chip their cars
But it seems almost nobody chips their N/A 997.2
11-22-2009, 10:32 PM
#9
So, I like the concept behind Softronic. They pull a copy of the original file in your ECU, flash in the new performance one. All done by the OBD port - so no removing anything. If you want, you can pull "out" the performance file and put back in the original one - before going to the dealer, etc.
I will post a full report after I finish gathering my facts. Had it in for two weeks now. So far, I am very happy.
11-23-2009, 07:01 AM
#10
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I don't find the delay in "flashing" the 997.2 any different than it was with the 997.1. This is an all new engine and engine management system, just like the 997.1 when the car was released. In late 2004 you didn't hear about anyone flashing their cars - the tuners were just getting going with updated software options. Another reason for the delay this time was the ECU was changed, making it much harder to rework the software, thus some tuners requiring you to remove your ECU to send it to them. Remember the old days, when you could buy a chip and swap it out yourself and if you went to the dealer, just swap chips back?
So, it feels like we're about the same point that we were 1 year into the 997.1, though the down economy has certainly had an impact. I don't think the "delay" or lack of numbers going with software has anything to do with any perception that there aren't gains to be had.
When you say "almost nobody chips their N/A 997.2" I don't see that at all, especially considering Softronic just released their OBD2 user-flash software about a week or so ago after a year of development and testing. I know of plenty of 997.2 users that have gone with various tuners' software for their cars - just do a search here and at 6speed and you can read up on many people that have.
My car is heading to Dan Jacobs for roll bar, GT2 seats, and Schroth Profi 2-H belts and will leave with Scott's Softronic software.
So, it feels like we're about the same point that we were 1 year into the 997.1, though the down economy has certainly had an impact. I don't think the "delay" or lack of numbers going with software has anything to do with any perception that there aren't gains to be had.
When you say "almost nobody chips their N/A 997.2" I don't see that at all, especially considering Softronic just released their OBD2 user-flash software about a week or so ago after a year of development and testing. I know of plenty of 997.2 users that have gone with various tuners' software for their cars - just do a search here and at 6speed and you can read up on many people that have.
My car is heading to Dan Jacobs for roll bar, GT2 seats, and Schroth Profi 2-H belts and will leave with Scott's Softronic software.
11-23-2009, 01:17 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
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11-23-2009, 02:38 PM
#12
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For my money the $/HP gain, etc. value is not there. as yours and other's posts have said you get more bang for you dollar in a car that set up for forced induction.
Also IMHO the cashola that Porsche wants for their X51 option is excessive.
Also IMHO the cashola that Porsche wants for their X51 option is excessive.
11-23-2009, 02:50 PM
#13
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Will do. I think you'd have to personally know Dan Jacobs and Scott Slausen to fully understand why many of us have high confidence in the process and product.
Dan's love for Porsches led to the formation of Daniel Jacobs, LLC in 2001. Dan started with Jim Traynor in Fairfield many years ago and advanced to become a Porsche Factory Trained Premier Master Technician with a regional reputation.
Scott's Porsche roots go back to 1979 when he first restored a 550. He is a Porsche Factory Trained Premier Master Technician with Carrera GT engine/body certification. He is also an ASE Master Technician, has a BS in Electronic Engineering, is a member of the PCA Technical Committee and has been accredited in many PCNA Technical postings and modifications.
In addition, Dan is at every PCA event in our area and serves as the chapter's chief tech. Scott is the editor of our chapter magazine. Both not only know Porsche, but they also love the community enough to donate their time.
Found this info at the Vivid site:
The 2009 and up Porsche Carrera is a big change over previous models. The new 911 has switched from a Bosch ECU to now running a Siemens SDI system. The transmission can be had in a standard 6 speed manual or the new PDK transmission to complete with the GTR, M3, and others. Softronic has spent time engineering and developing software for the new FSI cars and is one of the only tuners in the world that can offer an ECU flash via the OBDII port. With some additional programming to adjust the cars timing and air fuel mixtures, Softronic is able to gain performance on both the 3.6L and the 3.8L 911.
3.8L Base - 385BHP and 310ft/lbs
3.8L Tuned with Performance Muffler - 421BHP and 341ft/lbs
3.8L Tune Only - 405BHP and 328ft/lbs
Softronic flashes the 997.2 Carrera through the OBDII port of the car. With their Flasher Client software, they are reading a full 1mb of the file to completely tune the ECU. Other companies claim to be able to do this, but are only read 128kb and making global changes. The ECU flash will alter your fuel and timing maps to give you a very linear increase over stock. For those worried about check engine lights, there are none! For those running a high flow cat or straight pipe exhaust systems, Softronic raises the O2 levels which will remove the possibility of having a CEL from this type of exhaust. Once the car is flashed, the low end torque and throttle response will be much improved. The mid-range of the RPM band will feel stronger as well. The overall improvement of drivability makes the 997.2 Carrera even more fun then it was originally. Since warranty is always a concern, Softronic also provides you with your original file. With this original file you can flash your car back to stock at any point. If you go to the dealer, there will be nothing visible through the Porsche PIWIS system. Softronic can program your vehicle no matter what country you are from or what octane you use. We have different maps for those running 91 octane or 93 octane and higher..
What are the benefits/functions of going with Softronic compared to the competition?
•Softronic does not require the removal of your ECU from the car. There is no down time at all.
•Your car can be flashed at your convenience from the comfort of your own garage.
•Softronic reflashing is done via a Client Cable that is connected to the OBDII port. The customer simply plugs the cable into the car and reads the file with a laptop per the instructions with the cable. Once the file is downloaded, it is emailed to the Softronic secure server where the file is tuned and then emailed back to the client. The client simply uploads the file and they are done. Total process is about 1 hour.
•Reflashing is done according to the vehicles octane level of pump gas and modifications are taken into account (Intake, Headers, Exhaust) to enhance power gains.
•All ECU Flashes include the Client Flash Cable. You can opt to upgrade to the Durametric Cable which allows you to flash the car, datalog, turn off warning lights, and more. This piece is sold seperately.
+ + +
Added for CarGuy21: I agree the X51 is crazy expensive. That's one reason why I like the idea of a simple primary bypass (ie: SharkWerks) and software tuning to optimize for 93 octane and the slightly reduced restriction. For $1k to get better response and 20 HP / 18 TQ is worth it to me. Basically look at it this way. $98,000 for the base 997 S 385 hp version or $100k for the 405 hp version with improved throttle response and sport exhaust. Spending $2000 complete sure beats spending $2500 for PSE and not getting any performance enhancement.
Dan's love for Porsches led to the formation of Daniel Jacobs, LLC in 2001. Dan started with Jim Traynor in Fairfield many years ago and advanced to become a Porsche Factory Trained Premier Master Technician with a regional reputation.
Scott's Porsche roots go back to 1979 when he first restored a 550. He is a Porsche Factory Trained Premier Master Technician with Carrera GT engine/body certification. He is also an ASE Master Technician, has a BS in Electronic Engineering, is a member of the PCA Technical Committee and has been accredited in many PCNA Technical postings and modifications.
In addition, Dan is at every PCA event in our area and serves as the chapter's chief tech. Scott is the editor of our chapter magazine. Both not only know Porsche, but they also love the community enough to donate their time.
Found this info at the Vivid site:
The 2009 and up Porsche Carrera is a big change over previous models. The new 911 has switched from a Bosch ECU to now running a Siemens SDI system. The transmission can be had in a standard 6 speed manual or the new PDK transmission to complete with the GTR, M3, and others. Softronic has spent time engineering and developing software for the new FSI cars and is one of the only tuners in the world that can offer an ECU flash via the OBDII port. With some additional programming to adjust the cars timing and air fuel mixtures, Softronic is able to gain performance on both the 3.6L and the 3.8L 911.
3.8L Base - 385BHP and 310ft/lbs
3.8L Tuned with Performance Muffler - 421BHP and 341ft/lbs
3.8L Tune Only - 405BHP and 328ft/lbs
Softronic flashes the 997.2 Carrera through the OBDII port of the car. With their Flasher Client software, they are reading a full 1mb of the file to completely tune the ECU. Other companies claim to be able to do this, but are only read 128kb and making global changes. The ECU flash will alter your fuel and timing maps to give you a very linear increase over stock. For those worried about check engine lights, there are none! For those running a high flow cat or straight pipe exhaust systems, Softronic raises the O2 levels which will remove the possibility of having a CEL from this type of exhaust. Once the car is flashed, the low end torque and throttle response will be much improved. The mid-range of the RPM band will feel stronger as well. The overall improvement of drivability makes the 997.2 Carrera even more fun then it was originally. Since warranty is always a concern, Softronic also provides you with your original file. With this original file you can flash your car back to stock at any point. If you go to the dealer, there will be nothing visible through the Porsche PIWIS system. Softronic can program your vehicle no matter what country you are from or what octane you use. We have different maps for those running 91 octane or 93 octane and higher..
What are the benefits/functions of going with Softronic compared to the competition?
•Softronic does not require the removal of your ECU from the car. There is no down time at all.
•Your car can be flashed at your convenience from the comfort of your own garage.
•Softronic reflashing is done via a Client Cable that is connected to the OBDII port. The customer simply plugs the cable into the car and reads the file with a laptop per the instructions with the cable. Once the file is downloaded, it is emailed to the Softronic secure server where the file is tuned and then emailed back to the client. The client simply uploads the file and they are done. Total process is about 1 hour.
•Reflashing is done according to the vehicles octane level of pump gas and modifications are taken into account (Intake, Headers, Exhaust) to enhance power gains.
•All ECU Flashes include the Client Flash Cable. You can opt to upgrade to the Durametric Cable which allows you to flash the car, datalog, turn off warning lights, and more. This piece is sold seperately.
+ + +
Added for CarGuy21: I agree the X51 is crazy expensive. That's one reason why I like the idea of a simple primary bypass (ie: SharkWerks) and software tuning to optimize for 93 octane and the slightly reduced restriction. For $1k to get better response and 20 HP / 18 TQ is worth it to me. Basically look at it this way. $98,000 for the base 997 S 385 hp version or $100k for the 405 hp version with improved throttle response and sport exhaust. Spending $2000 complete sure beats spending $2500 for PSE and not getting any performance enhancement.
11-23-2009, 07:49 PM
#14
Race Director
If you are tracking your car yes a ECU upgrade can make a slight difference if you are an advanced driver. For the street I do not know...my 2007 had the Softronic ECU upgrade and to really feel the difference I had to be seriously breaking the law. My 2009 C2S is not chipped and I have no problem hanging with .1 GT3's some 997 Turbo's and 996 Turbo's are no problem. I have found that spending money on track time, and R-Comp tires with a proper alignment is money better spent.
You can justify a ECU flash if you really want to and you can also not justify it...it depends on what YOU really want. Just do not go into a set of mufflers and ECU flash thinking the car will now become that much different in seat of the pants power or that it will turn into a Turbo...cuz it won't.
You can justify a ECU flash if you really want to and you can also not justify it...it depends on what YOU really want. Just do not go into a set of mufflers and ECU flash thinking the car will now become that much different in seat of the pants power or that it will turn into a Turbo...cuz it won't.
11-24-2009, 11:50 AM
#15
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I'd say my car has now 10HP more or so than stock
If I flash the ECU I should get another 10HP ?
It means, extracting about 20HP from aftermarket parts is my goal and I just want to know if I am being realistic or not ?