997, esq

Trader220, I hear what you are saying. Negotiations in the car business are often unnecessarily contentious. (The salesman / buyer dynamic is even more toxic on regular cars than Porsches and the like, in my experience.) I've had dealers get pissed or annoyed or "insulted" if I try to press them on price, even when I know I am being very reasonable. It's the flip side of what you are talking about. I think both sides need to understand it's a simple business transaction. Either a seller or buyer can meet on a price, or they can't. There's nothing to get upset about, on the internet or off the internet. There's many other buyers, many other sellers.

boolala

Having the mods patrol these forums is like having the fox guard the henhouse. As the behavoir of at least one mod has shown in the 997TT forum they, themselves, are not above provocation and insult.

OCBen

You've noticed that too, eh Boo?

I thought it was just me.

May explain why the distress signals were apparently ignored.

Trader220

Well said and I didnt mean to imply that salespeople are never the source of their own problems.


I get a kick out of the people who walk away pissed off because their buddy got 24% off in September and they can only get 19% off now., as if there was another time in history when you could get any sort of number off on a new 911 even close to that. I should also be held to what people claimed they got in terms of percentage off on an internet board.

Asquared

I've only been around a few months, but the flames don't really bother me. Yes, sometimes the attacks get a little personal, and yes, sometimes the confrontations get a bit more heated than they would with all the participants were in the same bar drinking beer, but hey, people pay money to belong to the community, warts and all. If people wanted nothing but technical advice, they'd go to Renntech.

For what it's worth, I used to make fun of a co-worker of mine who spent all day on a web-forum related to a professional sports team, posting on all kinds of topics unrelated to the team. After getting addicted to this site, I think I understand.

Heck, the only reason I paid for my membership was so I could participate in the P&C forum :-)

rodsky

True - we also get pissed and call dealers "stealers" when we cant get a car at MSRP (e.g. a GT3 or a GT3RS) when the market is hot but when the economiy is frigid - we are all running around saying how we got 20% off. Its only good in one direction.

OldGuy

As forums go this is much more mature that other forums I have been to. And unfortunately money does bring some more maturity. If you have ever been to a BMW forum where there are a bunch of kids with daddys M3 it gets nasty with one post. But what you saw Dt/dt was someone taking issue with satire. I like to drop some entertainment in here. That ford commercial being an example of some of the things I will do. A completely innocent take on an over the top commercial. If you read the whole thing you will read the main instigator hadnt ever "SEEN" the radio commercial I was doing the satire on. When you have that, there is not much you can do, about the attacker. I will almost never ever start a "fight" but if I am attacked for no reason as in that case I have to post a counter point otherwise ignorance flourishes. Bob R. is a great moderator. He has warned me a couple times. But a couple times in 7500 posts is not much.
Also you find the people who dont show a whole lot of respect (SOMETIMES) dont have a whole lot of posts. They just come in and snipe then leave.
Someone said that money doenst buy maturity (I am paraphrasing) but thats not TOO true. I have been here for a long time and I started in the 993 forum and that forum has become more edgy as they have become more affordable. I find the same is happening here. There is less edginess in the GT3 forums. MORE edgy in the 924 forum. I am more interested in truth that political correctness AND I use the OT forum if the topic is contentious or political.
It STARTS with UNDERSTANDING what is being written. In that thread you reference I stuck with it and stuck with it until everyone UNDERSTOOD it was all in FUN. The one person ruined all the fun. If what is being written is in jest it should be taken that way and in a light heart. In my case you will find if I am not talking cars then it will be humorous.
I try to understand what someone is writing and answer questions. You wont find me saying "the Search function is your friend" because even the newbies come in here with the same old question its just as fast for me to answer it for him and me rather than "the Search function is your friend" The search function is not always user friendly.
So again as Mr Jones said this is a forum and it ebbs and flow. There is no reason for what happened, but typical misunderstanding. It didnt have to happen. He could have read the whole thread especially where I wrote "HUMOR MODE ON" then he could have moved on. But no he dug in and dug in.
Nothing can be done for that in forums.
Its just a case of who drops in and who doesnt. You will find those who's passion for the marque is not a passing fancy stick around here for a long time. And its a real passion.

dD/dt

Paul,

I don't have the seniority of some, but I lurked for a year before joining, and have a pretty good idea who's who around here, at least among the more vocal members. I really appreicate the experience and enthusiasm you bring to the forum, and yours are among the posts I always read around here. I alluded to the thread in which you were a major contributor, which is a fair comment considering that thread came off the rails for a while, but by no means intended to assert that you were acting alone. There was a lot of provocation there too. If I ever make it to 7500 posts I doubt it will be without any warnings from the mods -- I'm not afraid to speak (type) my mind. And for the record, yours was by no means the only thread that prompted my comments.

Again, it's a fun place to hang out, we share an enthusiasm for these cars (and often a lot of education and nice jobs), and I only took exception to the comments which make us, as a group, seem arrogant or unfriendly to new members.

Thanks for the good work, and for the thoughtful post(s), especially the one above.

Cheers,
Alex

OldGuy

Thanks Alex.
I think what you will find here is a good mutual respect for each other 99.99% of the time. But youre right sometimes stuff comes off the rails. I hope it doesnt happen again. That wont stop me from self indulging in some dumb jokes or humor, but thats just USUALLY for our members enjoyment. Certainly not to be hurtful or unwelcoming. And most of the other times is just trying to be helpful.

OCBen

You got that right. And so have the others who have commented that it's rather tame here by comparison.

Anybody who thinks it's atrocious and offensive here, just goes to show they're naive about automotive forums, in that they likely haven't hung out in other forums and seen what goes on over there. It's also very idealistic (as someone else pointed out) to believe that others will always behave politely. If they did, there would not be a need for mods.

Speaking of which, as boolala points out:There are some mods who have no business being mods, as they only seem to throw fuel on the fire. I won't mention any names, but one has the intials ltc.

Instead of evaluating a reported post and making an assessment as to whether or not any rules were violated, they automatically throw a flag just because a post was reported, and that's their sole justification for doing so; instead of applying a little judgment and evaluation and coming to the conclusion that although the post seems harsh, there was no violation being committed, and letting the one who reported the post know that.

And I agree with you, Bob R. is not only a great mod, but one of the very best around. If only the rest would follow his example.

Oh, if you think it would do any good, why not send this guy a PM, personally apologizing for any offense he may have taken. Been there, done that. Especially after a few beers at the Renny bar.

yemenmocha

This forum is lightyears better than the crap that you get on an M3 forum.

OldGuy

Yemen I was APUALED (of course I am always a PAUL) when I went to the M3 forums. This was before I bought my AMG C63 and i was debating between the two cars and man! I just asked a question about the M3 brakes. I wasnt confident in the BMW brakes when they were the single piston caliper. I asked should I wait on the 09 M3 that came with the brembo package or go with the AMG OR get an 08 with the single piston and OH MY GAWD you would have thought I cursed the very city of Munich!! I dont think it played into my decision but it didnt help. The AMG forums were abit more mature. The M3 forums were just out of control. Other BMW forums were abit more mature. I have a 335i too and its not much better (335 forum) This forum is like the retirement home comparatively .

yemenmocha

LOL and given the response to the other thread about who is older than the 911, you may be right in more ways than one!

stevepow

I'd say the M5board and the bimmerfest 550 forums were some of the best. Some of those guys also had Porsches and I don't really recall so much aggression nor overflows of testosterone on those boards - it would probably not be tolerated - and I'm not talking about admin coming to the rescue - it was just not the way there. So while I may have realized it is idealistic to expect that in general, I don't think it is always the case in "automotive forums" nor do I think the social dynamic is necessarily different in car forums than other types.

Maybe it follows the car: the e39 was a laid back sleeper; no show and all go - a different kind of "average" owner.

stevepow

I saw that Ford thread going off the rails - just had to stay out of it.

I have two opinions about that fiasco:

1 - Anyone who reads through that topic would get where you were coming from and, whether the joke was a bit off color to some or not, it was obviously intended to be humor. The problem - what got things in the ditch - was pretty obvious from my few months on a couple of 997 forums. I have seen that same sort of hysterical reaction, name calling, degenerated posting before - I know you've been here a lot longer than I have and you had to know to engage with it was going to go exactly where it did. Good for you! Someone needed to do that - take a stand and dig in - play the heavy. Some saw it as a problem - I'm hoping your doing so was part of the fix.

2 - I try to be humble about my car. In many of these forums, that's nothing since it is a rather humble 997 I have. But in the larger scope it is something special - not everyone thinks about cars the way we do - puts a priority on cars that would lead to spending on a car like this that is fairly impractical. In that sense, it is a luxury item or certainly an eccentric thing to own. I try to keep that perspective. And there are those who might like to own a 911 who simply cannot. If they can get a decent Ford that makes them feel better or fulfilled - even under some delusion that we all know is nonsense - comparing it to a Porsche. I mean even the BMW guy for M3 made that comparison and I still think that is also nuts - of course we know better and so does he - marketeering people - what are you gonna do?

But I don't like the idea so much of rubbing it in. And I know this is a Porsche forum - just between us, right? Still, it reminds me of making racial comments when no one who could be offended is in the room - it is still offensive none the less. It is a behavior that breeds contempt and I don't think it is healthy. It's only cars though - but no, it's really people. If a SHO makes someone happy then I'm glad it does.

I know you meant no offense although I can see how some might have felt offended - still that one reaction you got was way out of line.