Ultimate Factories - Porsche 911
10-23-2009, 01:54 AM
#31
Banned
That's just for the color coat. The primer process is entirely automated as you saw. Then the color coat is applied.
The coats of clear -- the critical final paint process that ensures a high gloss finish -- are applied through robotic automation.
The coats of clear -- the critical final paint process that ensures a high gloss finish -- are applied through robotic automation.
10-23-2009, 01:59 AM
#32
Three Wheelin'
That was amazing. I'll be thinking about that every time I drive now.
10-23-2009, 02:09 AM
#33
...
It was interesting to see the engine generously revved past the supposed 4k limit for break-in (PCNA customers only, ROW have at it). I bet it pisses off those who have babied their cars by keeping the rpms below 4k for 2k. I certainly never followed that prescribed regimen.
It was interesting to see the engine generously revved past the supposed 4k limit for break-in (PCNA customers only, ROW have at it). I bet it pisses off those who have babied their cars by keeping the rpms below 4k for 2k. I certainly never followed that prescribed regimen.
But I have to disagree with your assessment about break in. 75 mph is hardly stressing the engine. Especially as it is done on rollers and the engine is hardly under any significant load (not pushing the 3200 pound car). This appeatrs to be a short TEST not break-in procedure. If they really wanted to excersize the engine why not run it to 150 mph?
10-23-2009, 02:11 AM
#34
Instructor
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Pretty cool. I would have liked to see more of the assembly line, the museum and some of the design studio. Probably hard to sell a 2 or 3 hour Porsche show to the network, but I would have watched!
10-23-2009, 02:26 AM
#35
Banned
Hi Ben, nice to have you back. Hope everything is well with you.
But I have to disagree with your assessment about break in. 75 mph is hardly stressing the engine. Especially as it is done on rollers and the engine is hardly under any significant load (not pushing the 3200 pound car). This appeatrs to be a short TEST not break-in procedure. If they really wanted to excersize the engine why not run it to 150 mph?
But I have to disagree with your assessment about break in. 75 mph is hardly stressing the engine. Especially as it is done on rollers and the engine is hardly under any significant load (not pushing the 3200 pound car). This appeatrs to be a short TEST not break-in procedure. If they really wanted to excersize the engine why not run it to 150 mph?
I never said anything about break-in, so I'll have to agree with you about disagreeing with whoever it is you had in mind that said anything about break-in being performed during that brief dyno test.
My point was that the engine was clearly revved past the 4k limit, so anyone thinking that the engine must never exceed 4k in the first 2k just saw a hatchling engine being pushed beyond that limit. And that was while the cameras were rolling. Of course, these young guys testing the engine on a car they likely will never own anytime soon would never ever have a case of lead foot when no one is watching, right?
10-23-2009, 02:52 AM
#36
Well I understand "break in" according to Porsche engineers to involve keeping the revs below 4200 rpm.
My point, however, was that the engine, even if revved over 4200 rpm in that test, did so 1) breifly and 2) with the wheels on rollers and thus the engine was not under the load it experiences at similar rpms when the wheels are propelling the car on the ground.
Perhaps I'm, wrong about this as I am not a mechanical engineer but it seems to me that doing basically a bench test of the engine at 7000 rpms without load does not stress the components to nearly the same extent as when the engine is connected to the transmission and has to propel the car. To me it is a question of engine load and not necessarily RPM. RPM comes into play after delivery because the car will actually be driven and thus engine load will be propoertionall to RPM in real drving situations.
My point, however, was that the engine, even if revved over 4200 rpm in that test, did so 1) breifly and 2) with the wheels on rollers and thus the engine was not under the load it experiences at similar rpms when the wheels are propelling the car on the ground.
Perhaps I'm, wrong about this as I am not a mechanical engineer but it seems to me that doing basically a bench test of the engine at 7000 rpms without load does not stress the components to nearly the same extent as when the engine is connected to the transmission and has to propel the car. To me it is a question of engine load and not necessarily RPM. RPM comes into play after delivery because the car will actually be driven and thus engine load will be propoertionall to RPM in real drving situations.
10-23-2009, 07:25 AM
#37
They dont want us dumb americans to rev past 4K so that we dont run out and wreck our new P-cars as soon as we drive it off the dealers lot. Remember the lawsuit porsche lost when a widow said a turbo killed her husband.
Anyway, I have had several full on race motors built and the engine dyno is part of the deal. They run the hell out of the brand new motors for extended periods to tune it and make sure some important part doesn't exit thru the side of the case.
So in summary, the "break in" period is BS.
Anyway, I have had several full on race motors built and the engine dyno is part of the deal. They run the hell out of the brand new motors for extended periods to tune it and make sure some important part doesn't exit thru the side of the case.
So in summary, the "break in" period is BS.
10-23-2009, 11:41 AM
#38
Banned
Well I understand "break in" according to Porsche engineers to involve keeping the revs below 4200 rpm.
My point, however, was that the engine, even if revved over 4200 rpm in that test, did so 1) breifly and 2) with the wheels on rollers and thus the engine was not under the load it experiences at similar rpms when the wheels are propelling the car on the ground.
Perhaps I'm, wrong about this as I am not a mechanical engineer but it seems to me that doing basically a bench test of the engine at 7000 rpms without load does not stress the components to nearly the same extent as when the engine is connected to the transmission and has to propel the car. To me it is a question of engine load and not necessarily RPM. RPM comes into play after delivery because the car will actually be driven and thus engine load will be propoertionall to RPM in real drving situations.
My point, however, was that the engine, even if revved over 4200 rpm in that test, did so 1) breifly and 2) with the wheels on rollers and thus the engine was not under the load it experiences at similar rpms when the wheels are propelling the car on the ground.
Perhaps I'm, wrong about this as I am not a mechanical engineer but it seems to me that doing basically a bench test of the engine at 7000 rpms without load does not stress the components to nearly the same extent as when the engine is connected to the transmission and has to propel the car. To me it is a question of engine load and not necessarily RPM. RPM comes into play after delivery because the car will actually be driven and thus engine load will be propoertionall to RPM in real drving situations.
But anyone who knows anything about manufacturing, especially automotive manufacturing, knows that today's cars and engines are assembled using the JIT method (just in time) which means as soon as components and sub-assemblies are put together they are then ready for the next stage of assembly in an efficient flow of separate individual parts coming off bins into sub-assemblies, into larger sub-assemblies, into final assembly and out the door to be shipped. And just before the car leaves the factory it is run through a "hot test" just to make sure everything is working properly, especially the power train. Anyone who would think this constitutes break-in is just showing his ignorance, and there certainly is quite a bit of that going on in these forums.
I really enjoyed seeing how all 911 models are identical after assembly of the three main components of the structural framework. And when the rear quarter panels are added, this then turns them into coupes, cabs, targas, and wide-body variants of each. I really enjoyed seeing that.
10-23-2009, 01:02 PM
#39
Is there any truth to the rumor that the ROW outside of the US does not get the 4200 rpm x 2000 mi break-in recommendations? That Porsche gives those "recommendations" to the US market as a way to cover their a#@es regarding warranty and liability issues? I heard that somewhere and, although it sounded plausible, I didn't really know what to think.
10-23-2009, 01:07 PM
#41
117 Stations
I really enjoyed getting to see some of what the stations did down the line.
These cars are really hand built for the most part. I also found it interesting that the cart with all the specific parts for each ordered car followed the car along the assembly line.
The automated robots moving the engines from one building to another was amazing!
These cars are really hand built for the most part. I also found it interesting that the cart with all the specific parts for each ordered car followed the car along the assembly line.
The automated robots moving the engines from one building to another was amazing!
10-23-2009, 01:28 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
How all the parts eventually find their way into the right car at the exact right time is amazing...
A picture from a display at the Porsche Museum this summer:
A picture from a display at the Porsche Museum this summer:
10-23-2009, 02:16 PM
#44
Banned
Well, I have to disagree with that assessment. Don't start spreading misinformation here. 
I think the word you were looking for is "assembled by hand" and very little of that is actually being done in their modern factory. I was impressed by their extensive use of automation in their assembly operations, such as having screws threaded in and torqued by machine. As the spokesperson pointed out, there is no added value having someone stand there driving screws in when a machine can do this repetitive motion tirelessly and flawlessly. The skill of the technician is needed when critical alignments during assembly need to be made, and someday this too may be done by machines.
The one area where assembly by hand will likely continue to require a highly skilled craftsman is in the application of sheets of leather to interior parts, as seen in the assembly of the leather covered dash. That was pretty impressive how he was able to smoothly apply the leather for a perfect fit without wrinkles and imperfections. I now have better appreciation for my perfectly smooth leather dash.
They have a pretty good MRP system (material requirements planning). All modern factories use one. The driver of the MRP is the MPS (master production schedule) which schedules all incoming orders. Each order has its unique BOM (bill of material) which gets inputted into the MRP to make sure parts will be there when needed during assembly. As we saw in the piece, Porsche has automated much of the delivery of these parts to the assembly line, which helps cut down on human error.
I think the word you were looking for is "assembled by hand" and very little of that is actually being done in their modern factory. I was impressed by their extensive use of automation in their assembly operations, such as having screws threaded in and torqued by machine. As the spokesperson pointed out, there is no added value having someone stand there driving screws in when a machine can do this repetitive motion tirelessly and flawlessly. The skill of the technician is needed when critical alignments during assembly need to be made, and someday this too may be done by machines.
The one area where assembly by hand will likely continue to require a highly skilled craftsman is in the application of sheets of leather to interior parts, as seen in the assembly of the leather covered dash. That was pretty impressive how he was able to smoothly apply the leather for a perfect fit without wrinkles and imperfections. I now have better appreciation for my perfectly smooth leather dash.
They have a pretty good MRP system (material requirements planning). All modern factories use one. The driver of the MRP is the MPS (master production schedule) which schedules all incoming orders. Each order has its unique BOM (bill of material) which gets inputted into the MRP to make sure parts will be there when needed during assembly. As we saw in the piece, Porsche has automated much of the delivery of these parts to the assembly line, which helps cut down on human error.
10-23-2009, 02:40 PM
#45
You have some valid points
Well, I have to disagree with that assessment. Don't start spreading misinformation here.
I think the word you were looking for is "assembled by hand" and very little of that is actually being done in their modern factory. I was impressed by their extensive use of automation in their assembly operations, such as having screws threaded in and torqued by machine. As the spokesperson pointed out, there is no added value having someone stand there driving screws in when a machine can do this repetitive motion tirelessly and flawlessly. The skill of the technician is needed when critical alignments during assembly need to be made, and someday this too may be done by machines.
The one area where assembly by hand will likely continue to require a highly skilled craftsman is in the application of sheets of leather to interior parts, as seen in the assembly of the leather covered dash. That was pretty impressive how he was able to smoothly apply the leather for a perfect fit without wrinkles and imperfections. I now have better appreciation for my perfectly smooth leather dash.
They have a pretty good MRP system (material requirements planning). All modern factories use one. The driver of the MRP is the MPS (master production schedule) which schedules all incoming orders. Each order has its unique BOM (bill of material) which gets inputted into the MRP to make sure parts will be there when needed during assembly. As we saw in the piece, Porsche has automated much of the delivery of these parts to the assembly line, which helps cut down on human error.
I think the word you were looking for is "assembled by hand" and very little of that is actually being done in their modern factory. I was impressed by their extensive use of automation in their assembly operations, such as having screws threaded in and torqued by machine. As the spokesperson pointed out, there is no added value having someone stand there driving screws in when a machine can do this repetitive motion tirelessly and flawlessly. The skill of the technician is needed when critical alignments during assembly need to be made, and someday this too may be done by machines.
The one area where assembly by hand will likely continue to require a highly skilled craftsman is in the application of sheets of leather to interior parts, as seen in the assembly of the leather covered dash. That was pretty impressive how he was able to smoothly apply the leather for a perfect fit without wrinkles and imperfections. I now have better appreciation for my perfectly smooth leather dash.
They have a pretty good MRP system (material requirements planning). All modern factories use one. The driver of the MRP is the MPS (master production schedule) which schedules all incoming orders. Each order has its unique BOM (bill of material) which gets inputted into the MRP to make sure parts will be there when needed during assembly. As we saw in the piece, Porsche has automated much of the delivery of these parts to the assembly line, which helps cut down on human error.
I am not spreading misinformation.
Last edited by BoxsterG; 10-23-2009 at 02:41 PM. Reason: Correction