GT3 As A Street Driver
08-21-2009, 08:21 AM
#16
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I've been pondering this same question because I'm also considering a 997GT3 as a street driver. After a test drive, I've concluded the answer is a definite "yes", at least for me. It is the supreme driver's car for the level of feedback and driver involvement it brings, even if you drive it at less than 10/10. Yes, it can be a bit noisy but it's not raucous and they are wonderful noises. The ride is firm and can be jiggly over uneven road surfaces (with PASM in its "normal" setting) but it's not harsh or punishing. Probably the biggest issue on the street is the low front lip. For stop-and-go city driving, it would be a frustrating car to drive, because it's like a beast that's straining to be set free. On the open road, however, it's hard to imagine anything better.
08-21-2009, 09:30 AM
#17
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I had the same questions and decided the GT3 is probably fine for a somewhat regular DD or DD you use along with other DD's Etc....
That being said, if your GT3 is primarily going to be driven on the street then your missing out on what it was intended for. In my searchings, most would agree that the edge the GT3 has over the 997S or even the standard CS can, and is only experienced at 9/10's driving which is really (most of the time) going to happen on a track. And, I am not saying you need to be a track guy just explaining that the GT3, in my opinion, is fundamentally designed for guys that want a car they can drive day to day and then right onto the track on the weekends.
I realize there are other factors to consider like looks and sound, not to mention the GT1 derived engine in the GT3 is actually/probably more reliable than the M97 in the 997S... but you have to ask yourself if those things are worth the premium. Even today, the premium for a used 997.1 GT3 over a well optioned 997.1S (with aerokit) is close to $30K which is a lot to pay in my opinion for a car in which its best assets are realized on the track when you dont plan to track the car.
So if I were you, and this is what I did, find a 997.1S that came from the factory with an Aero Kit (these cars are quite rare as I found since a lot of Aero Kits get added after the fact by dealers) and the other options you want.
As for driving everyday, I own a fairly modded 997S with a cup front spoiler and lowered on Damptronics. Its not a car that I could drive everyday unless I knew exactly where I was going and knew that there were not going to be any steep driveways. Even before I lowered it and the car was at stock 997 height, it was a pain to get around in sometimes.
Jason
That being said, if your GT3 is primarily going to be driven on the street then your missing out on what it was intended for. In my searchings, most would agree that the edge the GT3 has over the 997S or even the standard CS can, and is only experienced at 9/10's driving which is really (most of the time) going to happen on a track. And, I am not saying you need to be a track guy just explaining that the GT3, in my opinion, is fundamentally designed for guys that want a car they can drive day to day and then right onto the track on the weekends.
I realize there are other factors to consider like looks and sound, not to mention the GT1 derived engine in the GT3 is actually/probably more reliable than the M97 in the 997S... but you have to ask yourself if those things are worth the premium. Even today, the premium for a used 997.1 GT3 over a well optioned 997.1S (with aerokit) is close to $30K which is a lot to pay in my opinion for a car in which its best assets are realized on the track when you dont plan to track the car.
So if I were you, and this is what I did, find a 997.1S that came from the factory with an Aero Kit (these cars are quite rare as I found since a lot of Aero Kits get added after the fact by dealers) and the other options you want.
As for driving everyday, I own a fairly modded 997S with a cup front spoiler and lowered on Damptronics. Its not a car that I could drive everyday unless I knew exactly where I was going and knew that there were not going to be any steep driveways. Even before I lowered it and the car was at stock 997 height, it was a pain to get around in sometimes.
Jason
Extremely well put
08-21-2009, 01:34 PM
#18
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I've had my share of Porsches, including a 2007 GT3. Loved the car in general, great on the track (where it belongs), but in the end, got rid of it in favor of a 2009 C2S w/ Sport PASM suspension. Reasons were many - I found myself not driving it on the street. Just not meant for that, especially with the terrible roads we have in the northeast. Scraped on every driveway apron, speed bump, etc. Clutch spring was heavy for stop&go. I was at a point where I was going to leave the GT3 as my track-only car and get another Porsche for the street, but that was silly. And then Porsche comes out with the perfect blend - the 09 DFI powered C2S w/ Sport suspension. Ride height is between normal C2S and GT3, but front lip isn't hanging down to catch everything like the GT3 did. Clutch is civil. Best part is that with the new engine and suspension, this car is the GT3's equal on the track.
08-21-2009, 02:31 PM
#19
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YES! It was certainly built for the track, but plenty of owners use them only on the street. If you've driven one on the roads in the traffic patterns you will encounter, that will tell you whether you can comfortably live together. If you love the 3 and can swing it financially, why the hell WOULDN'T you buy it and use it every day? Yes, it can be noisy and rough at times -- especially at slow speeds -- and the sport shifter is far notchier than the 997's, but what a blessing that you'd get to drive this maginificent car daily. 33K miles on mine.
08-21-2009, 04:07 PM
#20
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And probably other things in life to enjoy.
I'll bet he even has a garage.
08-21-2009, 04:32 PM
#21
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I just picked up a 2010 997.2 GT3 after owning an '07 Carrera S w/ aerokit for about two years. Surprisingly, the new GT3 is slightly easier to live with on the street that the S. I'm not sure why, but the GT3 doesn't scrape as much. The parking garage at my office is underground and there is a nasty transition from the sloped driveway to the flat parking area. The S would scrape regardless of the angle I took, but I can get the GT3 in without any scraping.
But when you drive the GT3, you do have to always be cognizant of the height of the front end. They will be offering the nose lift for upcoming production allocations, but this is only going to help with driveways, and it is rare that I can't position the car to get into a driveway or parking lot without scraping. It won't help with scraping due to the uneven pavement encountered while driving, which doesn't happen that often, but it will happen. The good news is the lip is plastic and can be replaced cheaply and easily.
The GT3 has a surprisingly compliant ride in the normal setting, not really any more jarring than my S. And don't get me started on out-and-out performance – this car is unreal. The S is a very good sports car and I enjoyed it immensely while I had it, the exceptions being its propensity to understeer (which can be corrected with the GT3 control arms) and its 7,xxx redline (I've never hit the rev limiter more in any other car I've owned). The GT3 is an out-and-out supercar. You will get nowhere near its limits on the street without endangering yourself and others, but glimpses of its character make themselves evident regularly.
In the end, all these cars are overkill for the street most of the time. My daily driver is an E92 M3, and if I had to have one car, I'd pick that one hands down. And if I was buying a car primarily for the track, I'd buy a Lotus Exige again (my 1st one died a nasty death at the track, no fault of its own!) - mid engine, lighter, and far cheaper to maintain. The GT3 is uniquely suited to both environments, that's what makes it such a special car.
But when you drive the GT3, you do have to always be cognizant of the height of the front end. They will be offering the nose lift for upcoming production allocations, but this is only going to help with driveways, and it is rare that I can't position the car to get into a driveway or parking lot without scraping. It won't help with scraping due to the uneven pavement encountered while driving, which doesn't happen that often, but it will happen. The good news is the lip is plastic and can be replaced cheaply and easily.
The GT3 has a surprisingly compliant ride in the normal setting, not really any more jarring than my S. And don't get me started on out-and-out performance – this car is unreal. The S is a very good sports car and I enjoyed it immensely while I had it, the exceptions being its propensity to understeer (which can be corrected with the GT3 control arms) and its 7,xxx redline (I've never hit the rev limiter more in any other car I've owned). The GT3 is an out-and-out supercar. You will get nowhere near its limits on the street without endangering yourself and others, but glimpses of its character make themselves evident regularly.
In the end, all these cars are overkill for the street most of the time. My daily driver is an E92 M3, and if I had to have one car, I'd pick that one hands down. And if I was buying a car primarily for the track, I'd buy a Lotus Exige again (my 1st one died a nasty death at the track, no fault of its own!) - mid engine, lighter, and far cheaper to maintain. The GT3 is uniquely suited to both environments, that's what makes it such a special car.
08-21-2009, 04:45 PM
#22
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Hmm, your experience is opposite of mine and everyone else I know that had / has a GT3 and a 997S. Then again, you are talking about a 997.2 GT3, which is a different animal. For performance, 997 GT3 trumped 997.1 C2S. 997 GT3 and 997.2 C2S are on par with each other. And 997.2 GT3 surely trumps 997.2 C2S or 997.1 GT3. To me it would be unthinkable to buy a GT3 as a street only car...
08-23-2009, 04:24 PM
#23
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Ron - how are you liking the Aqua blue?
I am thinking of following your path to a better street car that can work on occasional track jaunts - was Sport PASM a special ordered car?
Chris
I am thinking of following your path to a better street car that can work on occasional track jaunts - was Sport PASM a special ordered car?
Chris
08-23-2009, 10:06 PM
#24
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It is time for you to stop taking potshots at Mjones, add some value or go away.
Based upon Mjones invaluable services to Rennnlist members he should be granted "lifetime membership". I hope the Mods and members are paying attention.
08-23-2009, 11:12 PM
#25
Race Director
Chris, I have Sport PASM on my 09 too and it really is the suspension that should come on a Carrera S. It is fine for the street and really good at that track. I have 6 track days and 7800 miles on my car.
08-24-2009, 01:31 AM
#26
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Hi M Drums - beautiful car! Thanks for chiming in. Can you compare the ride stiffness to the normal C2S PASM please? Do you have issues with your nose scraping (sounds a little personal heh?)
Chris
Chris
08-24-2009, 02:08 AM
#27
Perhaps this question would be better suited for
the GT3 forum, however, I know a lot of members
are on a number of forums.
Is the GT3 a car you can have as a second or third
vehicle that can be comfortably driven on the street
and not necessarily only on the track?
Or is the GT3 too difficult and irritating to drive
around town for fun?
the GT3 forum, however, I know a lot of members
are on a number of forums.
Is the GT3 a car you can have as a second or third
vehicle that can be comfortably driven on the street
and not necessarily only on the track?
Or is the GT3 too difficult and irritating to drive
around town for fun?
If anything, I'd say get the GT3 and if it's a mistake for you, you'll have had a great experience and no regrets. If you get a Carrera and find it in the driveway asking yourself why you don't have a GT3, you'll have wasted an opportunity.
08-24-2009, 02:16 PM
#29
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^
"..... but would be better off to refrain from any suggestions on lifestyle...."
Isn't that a blatant contradiction, and hypocritical on your part?
It certainly is opinionated and not car related.
We (imo) would like to stay on cars etc., (not probable personal traits and/or hang-ups to the extent they exist, if at all.)
I, for one, am looking forward to your first insightful, even inciting, comments about Porsche cars and their personalities, not their owners.
Surprise me!
"..... but would be better off to refrain from any suggestions on lifestyle...."
Isn't that a blatant contradiction, and hypocritical on your part?
It certainly is opinionated and not car related.
We (imo) would like to stay on cars etc., (not probable personal traits and/or hang-ups to the extent they exist, if at all.)
I, for one, am looking forward to your first insightful, even inciting, comments about Porsche cars and their personalities, not their owners.
Surprise me!
