aggie57

That's a huge difference. Agree around town there is not a lot in it, although my .2 C2S is definitely more economical than my 08 C2. Hard to quote you mpg as over here we're in Litres / 100 km but I used to get 16-16.5 l/100km on the old car vs 15-15.5 in the new one.

Actually when I write it like that it sounds quite an improvement esp. taking into account the extra power this one has.

OldGuy

If you are going to buy an exhuast the Sharkwerks is the way to go. The way my GT3, sounded
afterward was LeMans like. its cheaper and easier to install

Hobart

Man, am I disappointed. Today I test drove a base MY09 base 911 Carrera w/PDK and last week I test drove a MY08 base 911 Carrera w/Tiptronic.

I really like the new tech features of the 997.2 (Bluetooth, XM and UAI) and I kind of like the LED lights too. The faster accelleration was noticeable too. The PDK seemed smooth as silk, although the Tiptronic was fine before. However, after finishing the drive in the 997.2 I realized that I felt it was not nearly as fun anymore. The steering was not the same. The sales guy tried to cover up and say it was because I was driving 18" in the 997.2 and 19" wheels in the 997.1 now I see from this thread that it was bull****.

For me the reason I didn't buy the M3 is because even though the M3 was faster and had more gadgets than a Base 911, the Porsche was more fun to drive due to the feedback from the steering. This one wasn't hands down more fun than an M3 to drive. It was almost boring, almost less fun to drive than the M3. At least the jerky double clutch on the M3 felt fun at low speeds like it was holding back a monster of power.

This is really sad, because I was all set on a new '09 mostly for the tech gadgets and the perceived easier resale in 2,3 years time when the 998 comes out and I special order one the way I want it. I figured more people would want a Base Carrera Cab 997.2 with PDK than a 997.1 Carrera S Cab with tiptronic. That was my reasoning to talk myself into buying the 997.2 even though the model change will occur in 2 to 3 years time. I usually like to purchase the first year of a new model instead of 2 years out from a new model. The refresh was enough to sell me on buying a new one. Brilliant refresh by Porsche, but they forgot the MOST IMPORTANT thing about a Porsche, the handling!!! I want to feel the road more not less. I do not care if it is the fastest, as it appears the M3 is faster.

Finally not as important, but still a let down is the sound of the car. The 997.1 sounded so old school sports car. This one not so much. It was cleaned up. Not so dirty or dare I say low tech. I think the M3 now wins out in audio feedback regard as I heard one just this morning to remind me. Damn it Porsche now you made me save some money and buy a 997.1. I really do like to spend money.

Now I will need to research how to retrofit into a 997.1 Bluetooth, Iphone jack for tunes, and XM to stay on top of the news.

Hobart

Would the handling be better if it had Sports Chrono and a Sports or Sports Plus button. Would the feedback be the same or better than a 997.1 Carrera?

docjohnM

The M3 is such a nice car, that it makes it hard to compare against, but I should add that the 997.2 has values that show up after the initial 'honeymoon' is over. The darn thing has 'Character'. I felt oddly disappointed during my test drive of the C2S as well, but my Porsche owning friends said, "trust me". And they were correct. The 911 is just different enough to make it enjoyable on a daily basis. I always feared that the M3 would become a driving appliance after the newness wears off, despite the fact that it is a truly wonderful car.
As to the steering feel, it gets better as the bushings wear in a bit!

blake

I appreciate this thread as I am looking at the 997.1, 997.2 and new M3 as daily drivers. I've got my track and weekend 911s, but want a spirited DD that is fun to drive. My first choice is the 997.1 due to the low prices out there.... Based on this thread, I'll take a closer look at the M3 and 997.2.

-B

rijowysock

if i had to choose again, i would have never "settled" on the 997.1 i bought first, the 997.2 i bought 3 months after is 100x better.. an entirely different feeling to me.

talkinghead

[QUOTE=Hobart;6901054]Man, am I disappointed.

I really like the new tech features of the 997.2 (Bluetooth, XM and UAI) and I kind of like the LED lights too. Not a reason to buy a 911, IMHO!The faster acceleration was noticeable too. The PDK seemed smooth as silk, although the Tiptronic was fine before. However, after finishing the drive in the 997.2 I realized that I felt it was not nearly as fun anymore. The steering was not the same. The sales guy tried to cover up and say it was because I was driving 18" in the 997.2 and 19" wheels in the 997.1 Isn't this reversed?now I see from this thread that it was bull****.

For me the reason I didn't buy the M3 is because even though the M3 was faster and had more gadgets than a Base 911, the Porsche was more fun to drive due to the feedback from the steering. This one wasn't hands down more fun than an M3 to drive. It was almost boring, almost less fun to drive than the M3. Just the opposite for me! Did your unit have the Sport Chrono pkg. with adjustable suspension?At least the jerky double clutch on the M3 felt fun at low speeds like it was holding back a monster of power.

This is really sad, because I was all set on a new '09 mostly for the tech gadgets Maybe you should look at an S4 or S5!? Lot's 'o technology! and the perceived easier resale in 2,3 years time when the 998 comes out and I special order one the way I want it. I figured more people would want a Base Carrera Cab 997.2 with PDK than a 997.1 Carrera S Cab with tiptronic. That was my reasoning to talk myself into buying the 997.2 even though the model change will occur in 2 to 3 years time. I usually like to purchase the first year of a new model instead of 2 years out from a new model. The refresh was enough to sell me on buying a new one. Brilliant refresh by Porsche, but they forgot the MOST IMPORTANT thing about a Porsche, the handling!!! I want to feel the road more not less. I do not care if it is the fastest, as it appears the M3 is faster.

QUOTE]

I wanted to like the M3 over the 997.2 as I'm a long time BMW owner, but there is just more finese in handling, that I sense through the finger tips with the 997, ymmv.

Nugget

Just to clarify -- the Sport Chrono has nothing to do with the adjustable suspension. PASM (standard on S cars, optional on base Carrera) is what gets you the adjustable suspension.

talkinghead

Correct, Thanks. After reading Hobart's comments, I'm a bit confused about what he is comparing.

Minok

I guess it depends on how you define fun. From your description, it sounds like fun for you is squirrelly steering, a difficult clutch and excessive engine noise. A 70's era muscle car is probably for you.

For me, fun is that it goes when I press the gas, shifts smoothly when I move the shifter, and keeps the noise pollution in check. Oh, and it goes where I point it and provides feedback on how it is steering and the road surface. The 997.2 does all of that just fine for me. To each their own.

Riz

I traded in my 05 C2 with only 1300 miles towards a 09 997 tt. The tt is great, I wanted the one with the GT1 based engine. I also wanted to buy a new 997.2 C2 because of the great deals on them. I just did not like the overall feel and refinement of the newer car, so I bought my old 05 car back. Now I have the 09 turbo and my old 05 C2. I just preferred the feel, sound, rev happiness of the 05 car.

_Nathan

It seems like each time Porsche comes out with a new model of the 911 it becomes a better car in many ways; more power, more high tech gadgets, better reliability, etc. But each time they also seem to take away a little bit of what makes it such a great sports car. I have no need for stuff like push-button automatic transmissions, drive-off-assistants, Bluetooth conectivity, headlights that bend around corners, or LED taillights. The extra horsepower would be nice but if it is true that the 997.2 has lost some steering feel and that the engine doesn't sound as good, then in my opinion it is a step in the wrong direction.

Minok

Steering feel I can understand, but I'd lump the 'engine sound' into a category of "even more useless than sport chrono"

cole328

I 100% disagree Minok....a visceral engine sound, very much the "opposite" of a muscle car, is one of the most compelling aspects of the drive experience. The first thing I did when I got my car was swap out the stock exhaust. Second was add the SSK.