Any reason to avoid the 2005 997s in favor of '06-'08?
08-06-2009, 07:09 PM
#16
I believe the early PCMs couldn't play MP3 disks, just music CDs. I think this was fixed for the '06s though it may have been one of the many silent mid-year improvements. Certainly not a deal breaker.
08-06-2009, 08:17 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
Everything I've heard from the people I know at the dealer are positive about the 997.1 as far as reliability and service, and this isn't in the context of them trying to sell me one (I already have one and we were just chatting over coffee).
Only real negative I've heard of and experienced is an occasional squeek or rattle.
Only real negative I've heard of and experienced is an occasional squeek or rattle.
08-06-2009, 08:45 PM
#18
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Good advice but also keep in mind that the M97 is more reliable than the M96 and even in the M96 IMS issues were few and far between and appeard to be relugated mostly to the smaller dispacement M96 engines that were in the early Boxters. Things tend to get blown out of proportion on the internet. IMS problems have probably krept up in less than 5% of all M96 engines and even less in M97 engines. So everything else being equal we are talking about something that might effect 5 out of 100 2005 997's and that is probably even on the high side.
-time to buy a lottery ticket Buckwheat
RMS issues on the other hand are much more prevelant and appear to effect all Porsche engines including the famed GT1 based engines in the GT3's and TT's. but keep in mind its just a leaky seal and in many cases your mechanic will tell you its nothing to worry about unless you see dramatic rise the amount of oil you burn.
Bottom line, a 2005 997S can be a solid car and good check into the cars maintenance history and a good PPI should be able to tell you all you need to know. You might also want to ask whoever does your PPI, how many IMS failures in 997's he has actually seen.
I am going to see if I can find an article Excellence (it may have been GT Porsche) published about the M96/97 engine and reliability. Lots of good info in the article and it dispells a lot of the rumors and exaggerations that appear to propagate in internet chat rooms/forums.
Jason
-time to buy a lottery ticket Buckwheat
RMS issues on the other hand are much more prevelant and appear to effect all Porsche engines including the famed GT1 based engines in the GT3's and TT's. but keep in mind its just a leaky seal and in many cases your mechanic will tell you its nothing to worry about unless you see dramatic rise the amount of oil you burn.
Bottom line, a 2005 997S can be a solid car and good check into the cars maintenance history and a good PPI should be able to tell you all you need to know. You might also want to ask whoever does your PPI, how many IMS failures in 997's he has actually seen.
I am going to see if I can find an article Excellence (it may have been GT Porsche) published about the M96/97 engine and reliability. Lots of good info in the article and it dispells a lot of the rumors and exaggerations that appear to propagate in internet chat rooms/forums.
Jason
Your posts are purely speculative. You speak like you have some stored database.
This topic has been debated many times. There is a % of cars that develop problems. No one knows what that percentage is. You run a risk of it happening with the M96 engine. (I am leaving the 997.2 out of this) Thats a fact. The PPI will not do you one bit of good with a IMS failure IMO.
While I was at the dealer asking about my car and when it would return there were two other 997 (NOT 996's; NOT boxsters) getting new engines for the same IMS failure. I saw the cars and I saw the engines out of all three of them and I saw the crates with the new engines.
I guess I'll split the lottery with the two other owners.
I also think the 997 is a good car but someone is really being naive if they think they can possible be immune to the possibility of an engine failure.
As I have posted before...you gamble if you own one of these for at least the first few years..w/o a good, solid warranty.
08-06-2009, 09:50 PM
#19
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Just to add: I wouldn't hesitate to buy a 2005, just go drive it and do a PPI. Most of the issues mentioned can be adressed or have been addressed already. You've owned an 08 so you are probably a better judge of the differences between 08 and 05 than many here including myself.
997 is a fantastic car. IMS is a serious issue if as it can lead to engine failure (not sure it happens that often, internet can magnify anecdotal experiences tremendously, what you really need is statistics but those are hard to get). I don't worry to much about RMS. Cost of replacing RMS is not that high and compared to "normal" issues on a 993 or 964, it is downright cheap ($1k or so as opposed to replacing valve seats on a 993 at 4k, or fix headgaskets on a 964 at 3k). Warranty is good for piece of mind off course.
997 is a fantastic car. IMS is a serious issue if as it can lead to engine failure (not sure it happens that often, internet can magnify anecdotal experiences tremendously, what you really need is statistics but those are hard to get). I don't worry to much about RMS. Cost of replacing RMS is not that high and compared to "normal" issues on a 993 or 964, it is downright cheap ($1k or so as opposed to replacing valve seats on a 993 at 4k, or fix headgaskets on a 964 at 3k). Warranty is good for piece of mind off course.
08-06-2009, 11:59 PM
#22
Jason,
Your posts are purely speculative. You speak like you have some stored database.
This topic has been debated many times. There is a % of cars that develop problems. No one knows what that percentage is. You run a risk of it happening with the M96 engine. (I am leaving the 997.2 out of this) Thats a fact. The PPI will not do you one bit of good with a IMS failure IMO.
While I was at the dealer asking about my car and when it would return there were two other 997 (NOT 996's; NOT boxsters) getting new engines for the same IMS failure. I saw the cars and I saw the engines out of all three of them and I saw the crates with the new engines.
I guess I'll split the lottery with the two other owners.
I also think the 997 is a good car but someone is really being naive if they think they can possible be immune to the possibility of an engine failure.
As I have posted before...you gamble if you own one of these for at least the first few years..w/o a good, solid warranty.
Your posts are purely speculative. You speak like you have some stored database.
This topic has been debated many times. There is a % of cars that develop problems. No one knows what that percentage is. You run a risk of it happening with the M96 engine. (I am leaving the 997.2 out of this) Thats a fact. The PPI will not do you one bit of good with a IMS failure IMO.
While I was at the dealer asking about my car and when it would return there were two other 997 (NOT 996's; NOT boxsters) getting new engines for the same IMS failure. I saw the cars and I saw the engines out of all three of them and I saw the crates with the new engines.
I guess I'll split the lottery with the two other owners.
I also think the 997 is a good car but someone is really being naive if they think they can possible be immune to the possibility of an engine failure.
As I have posted before...you gamble if you own one of these for at least the first few years..w/o a good, solid warranty.
I will post the info when I find it. Till then, the glass if half full
Jason
08-07-2009, 01:12 AM
#23
One thing that's of interest to me is that, although the tip makes up about 40% of the 997.1 sold it seems to have disproportionately fewer problems. All of the RMS, IMS issues seem to be in the 6 -speed cars. I don't know if the drive train aft of the transimission is the same or different in these cars.
The tip is made by Mercedes who has a reputation for making bulletproof transmissions. Mine has been flawless in 43000 miles and counting. Early '05 tips had an issue with a micro switch in the gear selector which was a trivial issue.
Even the vaunted PDK and the new DFI engines seem to be undergoing teething pains.
I know that the tip is much maligned (by many who do not know any better) but from a reliability standpoint it puts the 6-speed to shame.
The tip is made by Mercedes who has a reputation for making bulletproof transmissions. Mine has been flawless in 43000 miles and counting. Early '05 tips had an issue with a micro switch in the gear selector which was a trivial issue.
Even the vaunted PDK and the new DFI engines seem to be undergoing teething pains.
I know that the tip is much maligned (by many who do not know any better) but from a reliability standpoint it puts the 6-speed to shame.
