Sadiq

Any reason I shouldn't participate in DEs? If something happens to my car, will insurance be dicks about it, or does that vary policy to policy?

Edgy01

It depends. You should really check in advance with your insurance company to see how they interpret such an event. Clearly, a timed event where you are head to head with another car would change that considerably from what you probably have in mind,--an autocross on a controlled course with one car on the course at a time. I would want to know up front (before you need it!) how they will interpret this. I know some people who have wrecked their cars at Buttonwillow or Willow Springs and then have someone trailer it over to someplace else and claim it happened when transiting Interstate 5 or something!

Ray S

Read your policy very closely. Many insurers have written language into their policies that specifically excludes liability at DE's.

beck1305

This is from the EXCLUSIONS section of my Ohio Progressive policy

3. . . to any vehicle resulting from, or sustained during practice or preparation for:
a. any pre-arranged or organized racing, stuntiting, speed, or demolition contest or activity; or
b. any driving activity conducted on a permanent or temporary racetrack or racecourse;

and even worse
6...bodily injury or property damage due to a nuclear reaction or radiation;

Frino

It's a crap shoot unless you have a separate policy covering you while on the track. Likely best case is that you will be covered for property damage but then dropped and/or put into an assigned risk category moving forward.

Absent optional coverage, you should assume you are self insuring for property damage and hope for the best in terms of filing a claim with your insurance company. I will let the experts address the risk exposure if you cause an accident on the track and someone else is injured or worse and they sue you for damages.

BMWCCA has figured it out and is offering track insurance as optional coverage. PCA is supposedly working on something at the national level but nothing has filtered down to the Potomac Chapter yet.

Market price on the optional coverage is something like $3,000 for ten events...includes a high deductable and an agreed value replacement cost.

Almost makes the Porsche Driving School at $3,500 a weekend look like a bargain...

Minok

I'm not sure about the 'crap shoot' aspect. Your policy would clearly state under what conditions coverage is excluded. If the exclusions cover the event you will be attending, then your not covered, as in the example listed above that excludes any driving on a permanent or temporary race track (whether racing or not).

Read your policy and the exclusions. It is a binding contract.

amamoy2

Just worked through this. Went with DE insurance. Cost me 2k for a 96 997 C4. Unlimited events within a 12 year period and 2k deductible.

Went through Chris at Everitt Boles.

cmoss

Ome on now... What do you think they will say? Seriously, dedicated track insurance seems the only way to go with insurance.

Edgy01

Personally, I would imagine you have to be considerably wealthier than I am to race. Everything about it is expensive. And you ALWAYS have to be prepared to fix it. Remember, when racing, and someone runs into you, no fault is assigned, you just take it into stride and take care of it yourself. I couldn't even THINK of accepting that liability.

CMOS

How often do cars get damaged at a PCE DE? I'm going to be doing a 3-day DE at Watkins Glen with the Potomac chapter of the PCA. I'll have an instructor in the car with me at all times, as will everyone else in the Green run group. As long as the instructors can keep people from doing anything really bad that endangers themselves and others on the track, the risk of damage should be kept to a reasonable level.

I'd be more worried about being in a run group with a bunch of people who are going onto the track solo with limited experience.

Sadiq

ok so in light of this thread, what's with all the people saying "spend $2-3k on DE" when someone says "I want to spend $2-3k modding my car?" Sounds like the cost of the DE, plus the cost of insurance, plus the implied cost of the risk far exceeds $2-3k?

Ray S

How often do cars get damaged on the open road?? It doesn't happen a lot there either, but it does happen.

Additionally, at a DE (as with your street insurance) you often have to worry about "the other guy" hitting you. If you read the language you sign to get into the event, the club, track, and other driver all will not be responsible if an accident occurs.

Ray S

There are "by event" options available at much lower cost.

https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...insurance.html

Ray S

Here's a couple more options

No affiliation

http://www.ontrackinsurance.com/apply-online.aspx

http://hpdeins.locktonaffinity.com/Default.aspx?cID=38

Caughtacab911

Yesterday I completed a PCA-run novice day at New Hampshire Motor Speedway, all first-time DE'ers. We had a bit of classroom, then basic vehicle control exercises, followed by 4 runs of about 25 minutes each, with instructors all the way. There were about 50 drivers altogether, running all types of cars from (very) slow 914s to vintage 911s to turbos and GT3s. To my knowledge throughout the day there were no incidents or accidents, just maybe a few bruised egos. If there had been anything serious or damage-causing we would have heard from other drivers or when we got the debrief at day's end.

My view (based on one day's experience) is that there's probably less to be concerned about - and fewer big egos out there - when you're at the beginner level. Problems can occur, but the instructors keep drivers hyper-tuned to what they're doing (or should be). And as they told us, we're all driving in the same direction :-)

By the way, it was a BLAST!

Gene
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05 911 C2S cabriolet
01 MB E320 4Matic wagon
08 Audi A3 3.2, S-Line = wife's