View Poll Results: Which of the following 2 PDK wheel designs would you choose?
Current PDK wheel with buttons
42
42.42%
Optional wheel with "Left Down" & "Right up" paddles behind the wheel.
57
57.58%
Voters: 99. You may not vote on this poll
The Paddles vs Buttons
05-05-2009, 03:51 AM
#31
Burning Brakes
I also prefer pulling back a paddle for upshifting.
I drove motorcycles for many years,
and pulling up is for upshifting in just about any motorcycle... also it feels right that way.
I drove motorcycles for many years,
and pulling up is for upshifting in just about any motorcycle... also it feels right that way.
05-05-2009, 07:49 AM
#32
Track Day
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Morning all,
Have been a member of Rennlist for a while, but have failed to introduce myself despite posting a few times - apols and hello to all.
Was based in the UK (where I still have a pristine 993 C4 cab manual) and am now based in Dubai and since being here have owned a 997 Turbo tip and from October '08 a 997.2 C2S PDK. I drive 99.9% of the time in 'manual' and have covered 5k miles in the C2S including three track days at the Dubai Autodrome with the Porsche Club UAE and so feel that I have driven the PDK fairly extensively on both road and track and he's a summary of my findings;
1). PDK is quite simply the best semi-auto/dual clutch/SMG etc gearbox on the market today (I have driven Ferrari, Lambo, BMW, VW and Aston)
2). For daily driving the buttons are perfectly positioned on the wheel so that a simple 'squeeze' of the wheel either upshifts or downshifts with the minimum of effort which is nice
3). For track driving it is too easy to accidentally 'hit' the buttons and force an 'upshift' if you have positioned your hands correctly - highly annoying
4). Both the stick shift and buttons are the wrong way around and although you do get used to them I would prefer that they were changed
I haven’t voted in the poll as ideally I would like to see paddles mounted on the steering column which when pulled towards you changed up and pushed away for down.
Have been a member of Rennlist for a while, but have failed to introduce myself despite posting a few times - apols and hello to all.
Was based in the UK (where I still have a pristine 993 C4 cab manual) and am now based in Dubai and since being here have owned a 997 Turbo tip and from October '08 a 997.2 C2S PDK. I drive 99.9% of the time in 'manual' and have covered 5k miles in the C2S including three track days at the Dubai Autodrome with the Porsche Club UAE and so feel that I have driven the PDK fairly extensively on both road and track and he's a summary of my findings;
1). PDK is quite simply the best semi-auto/dual clutch/SMG etc gearbox on the market today (I have driven Ferrari, Lambo, BMW, VW and Aston)
2). For daily driving the buttons are perfectly positioned on the wheel so that a simple 'squeeze' of the wheel either upshifts or downshifts with the minimum of effort which is nice
3). For track driving it is too easy to accidentally 'hit' the buttons and force an 'upshift' if you have positioned your hands correctly - highly annoying
4). Both the stick shift and buttons are the wrong way around and although you do get used to them I would prefer that they were changed
I haven’t voted in the poll as ideally I would like to see paddles mounted on the steering column which when pulled towards you changed up and pushed away for down.
05-05-2009, 09:57 AM
#33
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Trouble with reading?
Huh!? You seem to say that since you have all your limbs... you prefer manual. Your preference is fine in my book but...
(i) if you do not care for PDK, why do you bother starting a thread on it? and affirming unequivocally that one design is better than the other, when it is not? I, for one, can use either system without any problem.
(ii) you are wrong implying that PDK transmissions are for people missing some limb(s). Some people without missing any limbs do like PDK.
(i) if you do not care for PDK, why do you bother starting a thread on it? and affirming unequivocally that one design is better than the other, when it is not? I, for one, can use either system without any problem.
(ii) you are wrong implying that PDK transmissions are for people missing some limb(s). Some people without missing any limbs do like PDK.
My beef is about the poor design of the user interface on PDK. And it would appear that more than enough people feel the same way otherwise Porsche would not be offering a steering wheel with paddles this Fall as alternative to the Benjamin Button standard PDK wheel.
Now was that so hard for you to read and understand?
05-05-2009, 11:01 AM
#34
I dont care if paddles vs buttons.
I dont care if right and left are identical or Left for down and Right for up shift.
So the BMW arrangement makes sense.
What I do want is pull for up and push for down.
As mentioned by others, a sequential shifter works that way. Same on motorbikes (I think), and on the early SMG and the like variants.
If as mentioned by one poster above, that its no biigie, just use your sclerotic brains, well then Porsche could have easily done it the way many suggest and all the triptronic folks could have re-learnt how to shift. OTOH, maybe people get used to what they do, and Porsche didnt want to alienate its drivers so stuck with what most other car companies are doing.
I had the choice of the PDK vs manual. I really wanted the PDK (Its faster. It is the future) but chose the manual because I knew the sport buttons would irritate the hell out of me.
If I had bought the PDK, I was planning to use my right hand for upshifting and my left for downshifting just to keep some similarity to what has become convention in other makes.
I dont care if right and left are identical or Left for down and Right for up shift.
So the BMW arrangement makes sense.
What I do want is pull for up and push for down.
As mentioned by others, a sequential shifter works that way. Same on motorbikes (I think), and on the early SMG and the like variants.
If as mentioned by one poster above, that its no biigie, just use your sclerotic brains, well then Porsche could have easily done it the way many suggest and all the triptronic folks could have re-learnt how to shift. OTOH, maybe people get used to what they do, and Porsche didnt want to alienate its drivers so stuck with what most other car companies are doing.
I had the choice of the PDK vs manual. I really wanted the PDK (Its faster. It is the future) but chose the manual because I knew the sport buttons would irritate the hell out of me.
If I had bought the PDK, I was planning to use my right hand for upshifting and my left for downshifting just to keep some similarity to what has become convention in other makes.
05-05-2009, 01:25 PM
#36
Banned
Easy there Chef boy. 
He was just trying to understand your position on the subject. He may not have read all your posts scattered throughout this forum on this subject, and even if he did he may not remember it was you who posted them. But clearly he's trying to understand your views based on this thread, and you've just now for the first time here clarified your position. So cut him a little slack.
He was just trying to understand your position on the subject. He may not have read all your posts scattered throughout this forum on this subject, and even if he did he may not remember it was you who posted them. But clearly he's trying to understand your views based on this thread, and you've just now for the first time here clarified your position. So cut him a little slack.
05-05-2009, 01:40 PM
#37
Still plays with cars.
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Wow, such passion about buttons. Initially I thought the buttons were backwards. That was only because I had two years of practice with the F1 tranny on the 430. Had I started with the PDK I would have foound the Ferrari arrangment odd.
The bottom line is that after a week, it really doesn't matter. The interface is not the important part. Either work fine.
The bottom line is that after a week, it really doesn't matter. The interface is not the important part. Either work fine.
05-05-2009, 02:19 PM
#38
Banned
And I believe this may clear up the mystery of the origin of the paddle shift scheme. For bikes, pulling up to upshift and pushing down to downshift is indeed intuitive. And so this established the paradigm of pulling up to upshift.
When levers (paddles) were placed on the column I'll bet the motorcycle paradigm migrated over and was adopted in that very first design. But something got lost in translation. And that something that was lost was the intuitive aspect of pulling up to up-shift. So pulling back to upshift it was. And the reason for the right hand side being the one for upshifts may be because the initial developers (Italians ?) drove left-hand-drive cars and shifted with the right hand. (If the Brits had developed it, the left hand side may well have been the upshift side, to also better parallel the motorcycle shifting scheme.)
But now with the PDK buttons, Porsche has indeed established a new paradigm. The question now is will it create a paradigm shift for making shifts on the steering wheel.
05-05-2009, 02:42 PM
#39
Three Wheelin'
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...That was only because I had two years of practice with the F1 tranny on the 430. Had I started with the PDK I would have found the Ferrari arrangment odd.
The bottom line is that after a week, it really doesn't matter. The interface is not the important part. Either work fine.
The bottom line is that after a week, it really doesn't matter. The interface is not the important part. Either work fine.
Should we complain about the forward reverse vs. back reverse on a manual gearbox too?
05-05-2009, 03:50 PM
#40
Instructor
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Well just to add my little piece...
Ive spent 4 years owning BMW M3's equipped with SMG gearboxes and paddles and almost 2 months in my new PDK C2S. I took to the paddles instantly and found them very intuative to use. I am still struggling to find the PDK buttons on my current car as intuative to use. Im sure that in time I will adapt, but the point is I never felt the need to adapt to the paddles - they were just easy to use from day1.
Ive fairly quickly adapted to the Porsche "reversed push/pull" layout so this has been a lesser issue than the buttons themselves.
So for me paddles are better than the PDK buttons.
Ive spent 4 years owning BMW M3's equipped with SMG gearboxes and paddles and almost 2 months in my new PDK C2S. I took to the paddles instantly and found them very intuative to use. I am still struggling to find the PDK buttons on my current car as intuative to use. Im sure that in time I will adapt, but the point is I never felt the need to adapt to the paddles - they were just easy to use from day1.
Ive fairly quickly adapted to the Porsche "reversed push/pull" layout so this has been a lesser issue than the buttons themselves.
So for me paddles are better than the PDK buttons.
05-06-2009, 01:09 AM
#41
Race Director
+1...I have gotten used to the current PDK buttons but now 3 tracks days I have had a few issues of bumping the buttons andgoing into a higher gear, thus ruining my corner.
05-06-2009, 01:50 AM
#42
the problem with the buttons is that it is not stationary... if you auto-x... you will have to look for the buttons as you are are turning the wheel... 2-3 times... might even have to take your eyes off the road and look at the wheel... its fine in a straight line but on tight corners, you really need to know where the buttons are.
The advantage of the paddles is, it is stationary... you know where it is at all times. Im a paddle man!
The advantage of the paddles is, it is stationary... you know where it is at all times. Im a paddle man!
05-12-2009, 04:39 AM
#43
Burning Brakes
I was going to post the question about motorcycles and how their trannys shift. I've never been a bike rider but I recall that shifting is done with the foot - the left I believe. And so I wondered about the shifting scheme with bikes, and you've now cleared this up for me.
And I believe this may clear up the mystery of the origin of the paddle shift scheme. For bikes, pulling up to upshift and pushing down to downshift is indeed intuitive. And so this established the paradigm of pulling up to upshift.
When levers (paddles) were placed on the column I'll bet the motorcycle paradigm migrated over and was adopted in that very first design. But something got lost in translation. And that something that was lost was the intuitive aspect of pulling up to up-shift. So pulling back to upshift it was. And the reason for the right hand side being the one for upshifts may be because the initial developers (Italians ?) drove left-hand-drive cars and shifted with the right hand. (If the Brits had developed it, the left hand side may well have been the upshift side, to also better parallel the motorcycle shifting scheme.)
But now with the PDK buttons, Porsche has indeed established a new paradigm. The question now is will it create a paradigm shift for making shifts on the steering wheel.
And I believe this may clear up the mystery of the origin of the paddle shift scheme. For bikes, pulling up to upshift and pushing down to downshift is indeed intuitive. And so this established the paradigm of pulling up to upshift.
When levers (paddles) were placed on the column I'll bet the motorcycle paradigm migrated over and was adopted in that very first design. But something got lost in translation. And that something that was lost was the intuitive aspect of pulling up to up-shift. So pulling back to upshift it was. And the reason for the right hand side being the one for upshifts may be because the initial developers (Italians ?) drove left-hand-drive cars and shifted with the right hand. (If the Brits had developed it, the left hand side may well have been the upshift side, to also better parallel the motorcycle shifting scheme.)
But now with the PDK buttons, Porsche has indeed established a new paradigm. The question now is will it create a paradigm shift for making shifts on the steering wheel.
Yes, in motorcycles, first is down, because you are usually stopped anyway;
neutral is between 1st and 2ND. 3rd, 4Th, 5Th and 6Th are all up (left foot).
I have been driving bikes since 1969.
I have no idea why Porsche would put the shifting backwards
05-12-2009, 08:38 AM
#44
Nordschleife Master
Works on the track I'm told (don't know myself since I have not tracked this one), If it works there, it will work for spirited driving on the street.
I'll admit that I have pretty much let it have its way in the non-sport modes thus far. Not sure when I'll let it rip and find out for myself. But I don't drive very edgily on the street anyway. Lots of fools out there, makes me defensive!
FWIW I love the mirrored-buttons design, far better than the L/R thing. But have once unintentionally upshifted. Have to avoid that if you want to be quick. Doesn't really matter which way they go. On the track I have driven cars with L/R paddles and it is very difficult to reset my hands to shift in the middle of a white-knuckled moment, I prefer a floor shift to the paddles since I'm "set up" that way from the start. This may be better, have to try it.
Another thought; one of my bikes, I think it was the Norton Interceptor you shifted "up" to downshift and "down" to upshift. Only the British...
05-12-2009, 10:36 AM
#45
Rennlist Member
If I did not have an A-3 with the paddle shifters (right up, left down shift) I would say the PDK buttons are fine (like Tip on my truck). But, I have to think about which buttons to push when shifting, AND the PDK is amazing!