1999Porsche911

I did not say that oil weight causes oil burning. I stated the fact that if you burn oil, viscosity has a direct effect on how much you burn. Lower viscosity will burn more and a higher viscosity will burn less.

As for the variocam operation....a 50 weight oil will work just as well as a 40 weight will. Even Porsche does not say differently..

Ray S

You did not say it outright, but you certainly implied it. I'm glad you have clarified that excess oil consumption is not caused by lower weight oil.

Then I misunderstood. I thought you were going to recommend an oil outside of Porsche's published list as you have done in the past.

I believe Porsche does have one 5W-50 on it's list.

ADias

The move to a low-temp 5W weight is ill-advised. I am told that 0W is key for proper Variocam Plus performance. This even applies to warm climates.

Da Hapa

I'm just a dumb banker and certainly know next to nothing about motors in comparison. And my comments aren't meant as an attack but...

I tend to side with what the owner's manual tells me. The guys who design and build the car probably know more than anyone else.

In my case, I followed the break in instructions for my 2008 997S to the letter. I then went one step beyond and changed the oil and filter at 2,000 miles.

My car is now about 15 months old with 6,500 miles on it (another oil change at 1 year/5,000 miles (I know, overkill) and I haven't really burned any oil at all. My car gets driven once or twice a week and I use the in dash doo hickey to check the oil level each time I fill it up and each time I have a cold start. I am uber-**** about not driving the car hard until the oil is properly warmed but then I drive the **** out of it.

1999Porsche911

How did you arrive with that interpretation?

1999Porsche911

The number before the "W" in the rating of oil has nothing to do with the oil flow at running temperature. Therefore, on a warm engine a 0W40 oil and a straight 40 weight oil is the same, as is a 5W50 oil and a 15W50 oil. No difference in flow whatsoever. If one works, so will the other.

DPorcella

I started a thread on this issue a few months back and got the "party line" of gentle break-in as per the manual.

This was even after I had cited several tech guys, yes, even at the dealerships of a certain Stuttgart-based hedge fund, who told me, "YOU DIDN'T HEAR IT FROM ME, BUT drive it like you stole it from day one!" As well as a race mechanic. Again, with the caveat of "don't quote me, I don't want to get in trouble with the Man."

Here's a quote from an article on this controversial subject:

"Yeah - But ...
the owner's manual says to break it in easy ...

The argument for an easy break-in is usually: "that's what the manual says" ....

Or more specifically: "there are tight parts in the engine and you might do damage or even seize it if you run it hard."

Consider this:
Due to the vastly improved metal casting and machining technologies which are now used, tight parts in new engines are not normal. A manufacturing mistake causing a tight clearance is an extremely rare occurrence these days. But, if there is something wrong with the engine clearances from the factory, no amount of gentle running will fix the problem.

The real reason ???
So why do all the owner's manuals say to take it easy for the first
thousand miles ???

This is a good question ...

Q: What is the most common cause of engine problems ???
A: Failure to:
Warm the engine up completely before running it hard !!!

Q: What is the second most common cause of engine problems ???
A: An easy break in !!!

Because, when the rings don't seal well, the blow-by gasses contaminate the oil with acids and other harmful combustion by-products !!

Ironically, an "easy break in" is not at all what it seems. By trying to "protect" the engine, the exact opposite happens, as leaky rings continue to contaminate your engine oil for the rest of the life of your engine !!"

Well, I got slammed down last time I asked this question. I really want to know the best way to break in my new 997.2 and don't want to even THINK about the politics and dogma involved, but nothing's simple in the emotional world of the Pcar. If the party line and the manual are correct, that's what I want to do, but if Porsche is just trying avoid a couple of failures at the expense of the rest of us, I want to break-in with gusto.

Fahrer

I have "broken in" several new cars ( MB E320, BMW 535, VW Passat V6, VW Passat TDI, VW Rabbit, VW Rabbit Diesel, VW Jetta, Two Mercury Sables, Two Ford Tauruses, Audi A6,two Dodge Intrepids) and all were done "by the book". All of these cars use/used little or no oil between oil changes.
I also have read many posts here indicating low oil consumption after braking in by the book. Many folks have reported breaking in their cars with hard driving with no negative effects. Based on my experience, what the manual ( manufacturer) recommends and past posts on Rennlist, I would do it by the book.

boolala

I don't think that Porsche's contention is that oil consumption depends on how you break the car in. It's pretty clear that people are all over the map on these things. Most people have virtually no oil consumption no matter how they break their car in and some have lots of consumption with the same break in schedule.

The only reason I even mention the fact that I break the car in by the book is to counter the sugesstion that the way you break the car in has any relevence to subsequent oil consumtion.

The bottom line for me is: who do I believe when it comes to what is best for my car? Some annonymous bloke on an internet web site who has no stake whatsoever in either the performance or the longevity of my vehicle or the manufacturer who built the engine?.

You can choose to do what you want with your car but for me the decision is a simple one.

Ray S

Hmm, again that certainly seems to be what you are implying.

Here's a thought, why don't you stop being coy and explain which brand oil and weight (or oil mix as you have previously suggested mixing dino and syn oils) you recommend for the Mk II 996 and Mk I 997 Variocam plus cars as well as the 997 Mk II's. If said recommendation falls out side of the list that Porsche publishes, please explain on what basis you would make said recommendation.

Or, you could just keep dancing around it.

DPorcella

Sincerely, thanks for the advice, guys. That's why I visit here daily. I wasn't trying to hijack the thread from oil consumption to break-in, it just kinda happened while I was reading this thread.

What about the "anonymous" Porsche techs I've talked to face to face who invariably say drive-it-like-you-stole-it (except when the dealership mgmt is listening)? I tend to find them at least a LITTLE credible on the subject of break-in, and it does seem that oil blow-by (if that's the right term) could be contributing to oil consumption and soot in the new DFI engine.

On the other hand, your point is well taken that some people seem to use lots of oil and some almost none, and it doesn't SEEM to depend on break-in technique.

1999Porsche911

WHAT don't you understand? The statement: "lower viscosity oil burns more than does a higher viscosity oil" only means one thing. It can't be interpreted as anything else but the one thing it means.

If you burn oil in your engine, you will burn less of it (or eliminate all burning) if you move to a higher viscosity oil.

I dont know of any clearer way of stating it. There is no consipracy or subliminal message here, just facts as stated.


As far as what Porsche recommends on their approval list...the fact is, if a 5W50 oil will work with the variocam system, so will a 15W50 or a 20W50, etc. That is just based on the fact that they are the same oil when warmed up. I didn't make this rule up, the SAE did. If a 20W50 oil does not work when a 5W50 oil does, then the maker of the 20W50 oil is manufacturing a product outside the guidlines dictated by the SAE..

And if you are one of those Porsche owners that think that only Porsche knows what is good for your cars, read the manual. It agrrees that the above statements are true.

Edgy01

This topic comes up all the time on Rennlist (and other forums). What we have found (other than that 1999Porsche911 won't share with us his engine background) is that how you break in an engine and how you drive the car has nothing to do with oil consumption. Many current owners of the latest generation of Porsche (Carreras, turbos, Cayman, Boxster) have owned several of these models and most report no oil usage in their cars, while another of their cars (same engine type) may use excessive oil. The driver is the same, and therefore the engine break-in is the same, as well as the daily driving methods. Despite all of this, there is still the occurrence of oil consumption on a lesser percentage of these cars. My salesman drives a Boxster. His previous Boxster went through oil like crazy,--easily 1 quart per thousand. His latest Boxster uses none. He drives this one just like the last one.

Most of the factory break in recommendations are for the 'driver' and the suspension components to wear in together well. The engine is already ready to go by the time you get the car.

The oil type and brand debate will go on and on with these cars. There are generally two places where you can use oil. First, if there is a problem with the bore during assembly, and with loose valve guides. The randomness of oil consumption in these cars tells me, however, that it's not traceable to a particular lot of valve guides or an assembly error in Zuffenhausen.

One gentleman in Australia (who I consider well educated in this business) suggests that the harder steels found in today's engines, coupled with the very thin oil, won't break-in for many many miles. It may take up to 40-50,000 miles to finally break it in.

The debate continues.

Ray S

Where did I say, I don't understand?

I was simply asking you to delineate your specific oil recommendation and explain that choice if it falls outside of list that Porsche publishes. I guess that's too much to ask.....

I'll try again.

What specific brand and weight oil do you recommend for the variocam plus cars?

1999Porsche911

Your most from above??????

Originally Posted by 1999Porsche911
I did not say that oil weight causes oil burning.

You did not say it outright, but you certainly implied it. I'm glad you have clarified that excess oil consumption is not caused by lower weight oil.




Then I misunderstood. I thought you were going to recommend an oil outside of Porsche's published list as you have done in the past.

I believe Porsche does have one 5W-50 on it's list.



What oil to run depends on the climate. For climates where temperatures are normally above 30F, I would not run anything less than a 50 weight oil, such as a 5W50 or 15W50. Mobil's EXTENDED PERFORMANCE 15W50 is what I use in my high compression engines.


Have you ever noticed that Mobil states that their EXTENDED PERFORMANCE oils are "........compatible with engine seals" but don't address the seals in marketing their 0W40?