krenshaw

Hi all,

Long time lurker, first-time poster here. I’ve enjoyed reading all of your informative posts for a while now and after years of jealously gawking at your beautiful rides, I've decided it's time for me to join the 997 family.

I'm currently scoping things out in my local (Connecticut) preowned market right now and getting ready to take a few test drives. Here’s my current wish list:

997 (preferably S) - with less than 10,000k miles.

C2S or C4S – I’m really up in the air about this one and it’ll probably come down to the test drives. I’d LOVE a C4S, but there don’t seem to be many in the preowned market, and any that I do find are asking a hefty premium over, say a C2S. FYI – I’ll be using this car as a daily driver and may occasionally have to get through some snow. I’m confident that a C2S with a good set of snows will get me through the winter just fine. But, I truly love the wide body look of the C4S and the added security of AWD.

Other options I’d like: heated seats, Bose premium, would prefer full leather, and Nav. (but that’s not a must have).

So, I THINK I know what I want but, like any newbie, I've got some questions:

1) What is the general consensus on the base 997 vs. 997S around here? I've read countless posts and magazine articles and I've studied all of their mechanical differences. But how about personal opinions? Are there any out there that bought a base 997 and wish that you went for the S? I’m mostly asking because I’ve seen a couple of nice looking base C4’s in my area that I’m considering. I've tried some searches here on the forum, as I'm sure this topic has been discussed ad-nauseam, but I think my searching skills may be subpar!
2) I know there are huge deals to be had in the preowned 997 market right now. But what about leftover new 2008’s? Has anyone seen similar drastic discounts (ie – prices in the $60k range) on these cars?
3) Does anybody have any preferred dealers in the CT/NY area? I’ve visited a couple, but with the great knowledge base on this board, I’m curious if anybody has made any particularly good connections and can recommend a good dealer/salesperson?

You guys have a great forum here and I’m looking forward to being a more active member and hopefully P-car owner soon!

Sorry for the long-winded first post... I guess I've been saving it all up for a while!

Cheers.

bave

The one thing I can help you with here is that I haven't seen any 08 left overs for that good a deal. I did some see some very good deals on base 997's with stickers around 90 priced down to 65k?

Nugget

My Dogma (it's all debatable):

• The "4" is wasted money -- it exists to satisfy Porsche's marketing department, not Porsche's design engineers. Both the "2" and the "4" will do just fine in poor conditions with the right tires and both will be a terrifying handful with the wrong tires. The extra drive wheels just add weight, complexity, and a loss of steering feel.
• If you think you want Xenon lights and the PASM active suspension, get the S. By the time you've added the cost of those options to the base car you've basically bought the S and you might as well get the bigger brakes and engine for free. This may be less true now that all 997.1s live in the used market, but it's probably within spitting distance.
• Navigation in the 997.1 cars is comically bad. Don't waste a moment's time looking for a car that has Nav and just pick up a garmin handheld. If you're buying a cab it can be nice to have the built-in unit just to avoid having theft-bait electronics floating around in the cabin, but otherwise it's not worth fretting about.

Undeniably True (if you disagree then you're simply wrong):

• Join your local PCA chapter and get signed up for the next Drivers Education (DE) event at Lime Rock Park or Watkins Glen. I know, you're probably saying to yourself "I'm just looking for a daily driver that's fun and sporty, I'm not a track guy" but the fact is -- if you're lusting for a 911 then you're a track guy. You owe it to yourself to get out there for some education and lapping sessions to really appreciate what these cars can do. They're built for the track. Do it.
• You're going to love it. This car will ruin you for everything else.

krenshaw

Bave:
I kind of figured as much, although I'm still hopeful. $65k still seems like a great deal to me.


Nugget:
I appreciate your thoughts, especially on the 4 vs. 2 debate. Very good points.

Xenons are a must for me and the PASM would certainly be a real nice option to have. Most base 997’s I’ve been finding actually have xenons optioned in and I honestly wouldn’t consider a car without them. As for PASM, do most out there actually take full advantage of all the PASM settings? Do you actually switch between Sport and Normal (for example) often enough to justify this option?

Good to learn that the nav. is so bad in the 997.1's. What’s the issue? Is it just terribly inaccurate?

I completely agree about the DE events and I 100% plan to do that. I feel that it’s the best way to learn about my car and have a hell of a lot of fun doing it!

RonCT

Welcome! Not much used product here in our lovely state of CT, but within 250 miles you get lots more to pick from.

I've never been a fan of AWD, even here in CT. RWD with snows is just fine unless you have a long and winding commute and absolutely must be out regardless of the weather.

Never will use Sport unless you go on the track and only if it's a smooth one (like the newly repaved Lime Rock). PASM is a fine suspension, sits lower by 10mm over the base C2 suspension.

Honestly, there are so many more C2S out there that it may be where you get your best deal. But if you can find a C4S without paying a premium, then check them out too. Don't be afraid to travel to get that perfect car. CPO is a wonderful thing (+2 years of warranty and the car is totally checked out) and flying out to do final inspection and drive home is a great experience.

p-cardriver

The issue with the Nav is that it is expensive. We have the Nuvi and use it in our cars w/o nav, and my 997S has the factory PCM Nav. They work about the same, the Nuvi is somewhat easier to use but the PCM is built in (no wires etc). But a map upgrade for the Nuvi is less than $100 while the PCM update is more than a new Nuvi. So I never update the PCM but I get the annual new map update for the Garmin Nuvi.

hikejohn

By the way there is a 911 4, 2006 for sale in Wilmington NC .... asking 45K

John

Eric - Plug Guy

You might want to look outside your region. Get with likemystoppie here on RL, he's a great guy with plenty of knowledge, and he's our local porsche sales guru.

As for the comments above, everyone's entitled to their opinions. I went from a C2 Cab to a C4S Cab and the car is night and day better. Better handling, better traction, just better all the way around. Yes, it's a bit heavier, but I would say I would do it again in a heartbeat. And I'm in much warmer weather with fewer snow days, and I don't usually plow snow in the Porsche.

But if budget is an issue, step back to the C2 and just march on. You'll be better off spending the money on a DE event and knowing your car's limits.

But do reach out to Chris here on RL for more info, and keep digging.

brendo

I have no affiliation with mr nugget, but i happen to agree with his assessment completely!

when i made my decision, i went to porsche sport driving school and asked everybody there what i should get. the whole product line was on the table for me. i wanted a daily driver that i would track also. hands down, everybody recommended a 997 S. of course, this was based on how i was going to use the car. as for AWD, it's all about tires to me. you won't get anywhere on high perf summer tires in real snow regardless of how many wheels are trying.

i do use the sport for the track and i drive on a somewhat bumpy one (pacific raceways is pretty lousy, but not compared to sebring or the like) - different experience from Ron here. i also have PSE and nav. i apparently have low expecations for nav because while it's not touch screen like the other one i use, it always gets me to where i'm going and does not underperform my aftermarket alpine unit i put in my old mercedes. i'm apparently in the minority on this point.

FWIW, i also have the sport chrono, autodimming mirrors and a TIP. yes, don't give me any **** about that, i sit in a lot of traffic. i'll get a PDK next but i'm fine for now

my car's pretty much met or exceeded every expectation i had.

brendan

luisimo

When I was shopping for my 997, I was only looking for a carrera s and eventually end up getting a nicely equip carrera. The only option that I did not get was the larger engine/brakes. I will not buy a 997 with out PASM and SPORT/CHRONO, the ability to have a car that change so much by the touch of a button is priceless.
Drive the RWD right after the AWD if you can not tell the difference the C4 does look sweet but I hated the feel. Good luck with your search.

tejoe

Operative word is 'GET AN S'. Don't want to belittle the base 911 owners but you already know from your study that there are multiple performance difference between the two.

Don't know why, but every autoX I've been to the C2S is quicker than the C4S; could be the drivers, could be R tires on the 2wd and not on the 4wd, etc. Of course a well set up Cayman S with a good driver will normally beat both.

Sport Chrono is great if you are going to push the car, and I'd like heated mirrors as well as heated seats where you are. Just about everything else, including your full leather, is gingerbread. You are buying a sportscar, not a Mercedes plow-wagon to drive to the club.

A CPO would be smart if they don't gouge you too much, but this restricts you to Porsche dealers. I'd certainly get a good indy checkup (how about Farnbacher/Loles) on a private sale.

Good Luck

krenshaw

Wow... thanks for all the responses everyone. A lot of good thoughts here. I know my decision will definitely come down to the test drive (C2 vs. C4), but with some of the arguments made here, it really makes it hard to not just go for an S model if I can find the right one.

I'll definitely get in touch with likemystoppie to see what he can do to help my search. I have to admit, I'm a bit skeptical on searching out of my regions because 1) This will be the first preowned car I've ever bought (always bought new) so to go through that inspection process from a few hundred miles away is a little scary for me... just a hurdle I'll need to get over if I really want to find my 'perfect' car.

Thanks again everyone... keep the input coming!

simplysql

Like Eric, I went from the RWD to AWD. I love to drive my car hard in the twisties - and the difference is night and day. Agree on navigation - I have it and it sucks. I don't have Xenons and miss them from my last 911 - I would make that a must-have. Also, I live in Atlanta, where it doesn't get terribly cold - but I LOVE my heated seats. They rock. If you find a car that has them, give it a good look.

Restless

I have a different take on the S versus Base 3.6. I have the 3.6 and took a 3.8 for a test drive. That was enough to make me happy with the 3.6.

However, my 3.6 is not stock. The stock 3.6 (05) had a horrible drop in performance at 3200-3400 rpm. Felt like you drove into a hole. Modified the cpu, added headers and an EVO air intake, and I now prefer the 3.6 to the 3.8. I felt the 3.6 was artificially strangled by the cpu to create a HP difference between the engines. Once that was corrected, the 3.6 is full of fun, and now accelerated in a smooth arc without any annoying drops in power.

Also, a sport shift for the 6speed is a great option as well, either from the factory or through various vendors.

cvazquez

1) No regrets, I love my base 997 and my bank accout.

2) Leftovers 2008 models, probably a discount of 15-20 percent.

3) Checkout the internet (P-car dealers) for 2008 models and deal over a couple of emails. If the price is right with your options jump on it like Micheal Jackson! Hell fly and drive it back home... : )