Spiffyjiff

i know i know, there's an autocross forum, but it doesnt seem to get much traffic, so i thought i'd post here.

question: should a '06 997S beat an '08 997TT? (i.e. sure the TT's got 100 more HP, but isnt the all-wheel a disadvantage in tight corners, etc?)

assumptions: completely stock - S is a coupe but TT is a cab, courses are 50-70secs and are primarily 2nd gear with at least one "almost 3rd gear" fast straight (actually, one this year WAS a 3rd gear).

my point: i cant seem to beat this guy! he's always a second and a 1/2 ahead of me. granted i've only done 6 autox's in my life, but i always assumed my car would take a TT on shorter, tighter courses. which sucks more - my skills or my logic thinking i can beat him? or BOTH?? :-P

Edgy01

More than anything else, you will find that it is the driver. Second is the course layout, and then any suspension and wheel tricks you have made to your car. If the course is a fast course you can't challenge a TT,--if tight you can.

Malakas

per scca, I didn't think they classed a TT - so he must be running in a local "special" class.

I just autocrossed my C4S - and I found the awd to be a big advantage especially in rocketing out of slow tight corners.

You should do a ride-along with your buddy to see if there is a significant difference in line/braking etc.

Ray S

+1

Mussl Kar

+2

996toomey

Porsche Club of America and Porsche Owners Club classes them the same. Equal drivers the cars are very close. I know hard to believe with the big HP advantage the Turbo has but it also has much more weight etc.

sws1

It's the driver, no doubt.

usmarine2003

It's the Indian... not the arrow.

Nugget

You've got your answer right here:

The others are absolutely correct. It all comes down to the driver.

That said, I agree with your core assumption that the S is the better car for autocross. There's no such thing as an autocross that's fast enough for the TT to take the lead from a pure car performance standpoint. I'm surprised to hear that Malakas is fond of the AWD for autocross, my experience in my C2S at autocross has been that it's very difficult to achieve sufficient speed to tame the car's desire to push and understeer, making it a real challenge of patience to negotiate the slower corners. I can only imagine that the extra weight and the extra drive wheels in a "4" or TT would exacerbate that problem.

All other factors being equal (including driver) a miata is going eat you for lunch anyway. Although, to be fair, I was at the SCCA Solo Nationals in Kansas last week and a GT3 took the trophy in super stock, beating out a bunch of more appropriate cars.

Malakas

You're right, the car did, if anything, tend to understeer. My technique (suggested by seasoned PCA friends riding along) was to come off of braking, turn-in VERY aggressively, tap the gas, get off it, then feed in the power -- when done right the car rotated nicely, and then at the exit "clawed" its way back to the line with what seemed like ridiculous traction. In my previous autocross ride - S2000 - that kind of a move would have sent me sliding WAY out of shape.

HOWEVER, if I was too tame with the steering, and tried too late to turn in (or worse, giving a second input), the car pushed terribly.

dianic

oh man... hahaha. being greek, your screen name is just hillarious...
"I am surprised to hear that Malakas is fond of AWD.." that statement, in context, is so funny. Not aimed at you Nugget, you arent Greek, and I wonder if you know the term Malakas... but it IS a term, not just a name...
Anyway, I wont explain what it means, its off topic...
Nice one tho... made me laugh

FTS

IMHO, it is the driver as well. A Boxster/Cayman in stock classes should generally beat a 911/S/TT, but the 997 TT driver, if we are talking about Mr. Pappas, seems to be a very good driver that can bring the most out of his car. I have done over 300 autoxes national, prosolo, solo II and PCA, so I have some experience, but one time I was in Potomac events, he had over 1 sec on me, which suprised me quite a bit.

The last Potomac event, Mr. Pappas put 2.5 secs to Larry Olsen, who has over a decade of national-level experience in his Boxster and he would beat me under any conditions; not to mention that I believe Mr. Pappas is using PS2 tires, not MPSC.

So, if we are talking about the same person, it is absolutely the driver.

Spiffyjiff

yep, thats pappas. but he's still running on orig b-stone potenza RE050A's (same as me), which are almost down to wear bars so i cant even blame it on the tires! i suck. :-(

Spiffyjiff

μιλάτε ελληνικά? i dont, but i did try to learn it - i'm greek as well. ;-)

many years ago, my dad and the other greeks here in DC area held their own little golf tournament and printed up hats which read "Malaka Open". too funny. yep, NO one knows what it means (other than greeks)! :-P

and sorry to the rest of you for the off-topic!