RSS Plenum test at AWE
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RSS Plenum test at AWE
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From: Darien, C.T.
Wow...lot's of people on 6speedonline were calling snake oil when they were putting the original group order together. I had someone reply to a previous post on my new Farnbacher Loles "power plus" mod's asking why they didn't add the the RSS plennum along w/ the X51 intake, ECU, and exhaust, it was because the guys at Farnbacher said the plennum didn't make any additional power...I trusted their call then given the extensive amount of time they spend tuning 911's, and looks like AWE's test provides more proof.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 15,362
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From: Tampa
Porsche had to run flow tests on the intake they currently use. It would not have cost them any more to use a intake plenum shape like the IDP. Also this IDP plenum style is nothing new. I use to be into Vette's back in the late 80's early 90's and the Ecklers catalog had a plenum like the IDP for $114. I bought it and it did nothing for power. So basically been there done that.
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Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 46
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
Looks like i'll take this of my mod list. Thank god i didnt order it yet, just another part to suck more money out of our pockets for nothing. Seems like most of these aftermarket mods do next to nothing for a NA 997. It just goes to show you how good Porsche has made this car right off the assembly line.
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Instructor
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Evergreen, CO
Interestingly, the purchaser's comments tend to emphasize what nice guys the RSS folks are (Stockholm syndrome?), rather than to suspect that they may have been deliberately duped. If you recall, early on, many potential purchasers were asking all of the right questions. Then, for some reason, as the Kool-Aid got passed out, the butt dyno guys beat the skeptics into submission.
In any case, RSS has our equivalent of a tainted Tylenol PR mess. Let's see if they are as smart as J&J was. I'm afraid that it will be difficult to come up with independent testing that show a 5 hp increase, let alone 27. I think that their only chance will be to demonstrate that dduncan's stock exhaust limited the extra flow created at the intake. But still...27 hp?
In any case, RSS has our equivalent of a tainted Tylenol PR mess. Let's see if they are as smart as J&J was. I'm afraid that it will be difficult to come up with independent testing that show a 5 hp increase, let alone 27. I think that their only chance will be to demonstrate that dduncan's stock exhaust limited the extra flow created at the intake. But still...27 hp?
Last edited by Rick in Colorado; Apr 19, 2008 at 02:35 PM.
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From: Johns Island SC
I called it snake oil... but I feel bad for the folks that spent their hard earned money for it... It does prove to a degree that Porsche has pulled a good amount of power out of the engines and extracting more takes a good bit of work... I wonder if the company will offer refunds for those that feel they didn't get was was offered...? Do you think they should or is it "buyer beware"?
Matt
Matt
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From: Julian, CA
I called it snake oil... but I feel bad for the folks that spent their hard earned money for it... It does prove to a degree that Porsche has pulled a good amount of power out of the engines and extracting more takes a good bit of work... I wonder if the company will offer refunds for those that feel they didn't get was was offered...? Do you think they should or is it "buyer beware"?
Matt
Matt
That’s a good question. Part of me says it should be “buyer beware”. Anyone gullible enough to believe a six inch piece of tubing midway through the intake would give the kind of results claimed by the manufacturer deserves to lose some of their hard earned money but another side of me says the manufacturer made performance claims that appear can not be substantiated.
I’m no legal scholar but don’t most products have an implied warranty of merchantability that says there is a guarantee that the goods are reasonably fit for their ordinary purpose? By losing a few peak ft lb of torque, decreasing a nice chunk of the mid range and only increasing peak hp by ONE hp, in my opinion the plenum does more harm than good but I long ago gave up arguing with all the “butt dynos” that make engine modifications without first doing a before and then an after modification dyno run.
However, unless the manufacturer makes an up front, money back guarantee I think it should be buyer beware. Where would we stop? Cold air intakes, K&N filters, headers, after market exhausts. They all make some pretty bold claims of power gains that most will never know if true because they have relied on their subjective “butt dyno” instead of objective dynamometer results!
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Feb 2006
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Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: Norwalk,CT
I look at it this way. Porsche X51 cost is $17K for 26Hp. RSS costs much less for say 27HP. Who do you really believe? Porsche may have to make an engine to battle with different country restrictions and other controls in a mass produced car, but in the end, it's a proven system.
RSS on the other had has a unique way to obtain the 26-27hp via intake plenum. If it works great, but you still have to think... Porsche has to install modified heads, modified cams, intake, headers, airbox etc to get 26HP. One device has that much impact? Hard to really believe. Would sure be nice to have a simple device add that much hp for so little.
I passed on an X51. Sometimes I wish I did the X51, but just still could not spend $17K for 26HP when thinking just the same line as RSS. Something simple HAS to improve the HP for much less. Maybe we underestimate Porsche development. Look at the "other" engines including full race engines. You'd think full race engines would be brimming with HP and torque...after all... it's Porsche. My guess is this is as much HP/Torque as you're gonna see from these engines (3.6/3.8) unless you increase the displacement and other items.
If you wanted a whole lot more HP and torque, maybe you should have purchased a Z06. Z06 has all the HP and torque you want along with it actually handles well. It may feel like driving a bigger car, it does do well on the twisties.
Or go with the new GTR that's out. Aother hot little car.
Spend the money on the items that make your Porsche handle better, stop better and look better. Another reason I went with PCCB's than X51. Better brakes, leading to better handling (less weight).
Only time will tell and unbiased dyno results.
Regards,
Deanski
RSS on the other had has a unique way to obtain the 26-27hp via intake plenum. If it works great, but you still have to think... Porsche has to install modified heads, modified cams, intake, headers, airbox etc to get 26HP. One device has that much impact? Hard to really believe. Would sure be nice to have a simple device add that much hp for so little.
I passed on an X51. Sometimes I wish I did the X51, but just still could not spend $17K for 26HP when thinking just the same line as RSS. Something simple HAS to improve the HP for much less. Maybe we underestimate Porsche development. Look at the "other" engines including full race engines. You'd think full race engines would be brimming with HP and torque...after all... it's Porsche. My guess is this is as much HP/Torque as you're gonna see from these engines (3.6/3.8) unless you increase the displacement and other items.
If you wanted a whole lot more HP and torque, maybe you should have purchased a Z06. Z06 has all the HP and torque you want along with it actually handles well. It may feel like driving a bigger car, it does do well on the twisties.
Or go with the new GTR that's out. Aother hot little car.
Spend the money on the items that make your Porsche handle better, stop better and look better. Another reason I went with PCCB's than X51. Better brakes, leading to better handling (less weight).
Only time will tell and unbiased dyno results.
Regards,
Deanski
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From: Connecticut
Hey Jim,
are you saying that RSS's dynos are slanted and not truly objective? Next month I have an appointment with Musante Motorsports to install an RSS Plenum and do a before and after dyno. It will be interesting to see what results I get. Anything really positive may be contributed to the Revo upgrade that I already have. I'll let everyone know what results I get. At this point it's a tough call. One thing I can tell you the Revo chip definitely added an upside to the overall performance of my car.
Jay
are you saying that RSS's dynos are slanted and not truly objective? Next month I have an appointment with Musante Motorsports to install an RSS Plenum and do a before and after dyno. It will be interesting to see what results I get. Anything really positive may be contributed to the Revo upgrade that I already have. I'll let everyone know what results I get. At this point it's a tough call. One thing I can tell you the Revo chip definitely added an upside to the overall performance of my car.
Jay
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: Norwalk,CT
Jay,
Just looking at all the data that has been out on this on both sides. I just think that it may be subjective, but you still have to look at what Porsche has done with these engines.
I'm sure that the Revo will mostly help seeing the mapping is different than stock. It may show a good increase with the remap and new plenum taking on more air etc.
I'd love nothing more than to bolt on something for what Porsche charges $17K for the 26HP upgrade for less $$.
In time, RSS and others should have more data. Only problem is who to believe?
Right now, I have to worry about tires. Then more handling items. Track time to better "learn" the cars handling. Maybe after all this, engine modification.
First, I think it's best to learn what you have than what you think you need.
Keep me posted and one day, I'm sure I'll see you at one of the CVR meetings!
Regards,
Jim
Just looking at all the data that has been out on this on both sides. I just think that it may be subjective, but you still have to look at what Porsche has done with these engines.
I'm sure that the Revo will mostly help seeing the mapping is different than stock. It may show a good increase with the remap and new plenum taking on more air etc.
I'd love nothing more than to bolt on something for what Porsche charges $17K for the 26HP upgrade for less $$.
In time, RSS and others should have more data. Only problem is who to believe?
Right now, I have to worry about tires. Then more handling items. Track time to better "learn" the cars handling. Maybe after all this, engine modification.
First, I think it's best to learn what you have than what you think you need.
Keep me posted and one day, I'm sure I'll see you at one of the CVR meetings!
Regards,
Jim