Do I go 4S or Turbo?
04-19-2008, 06:04 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
"More ferocious" can be accomplished in different ways. I'm just saying that I am frustrated by the industry's myopic focus on horsepower at the expense of other, more desirable approaches to building a performance car. I think that everyone should spend less time fretting about peak horsepower numbers and more time evaluating the whole of the car.
A C2S with the same horsepower as the current model but 250lb less weight would be a much better car, imho, than a C2S that enjoyed a horsepower bump but stayed the same weight. Ferrari is going in that direction and I hope Porsche does as well.
There's more than one way to skin this proverbial cat, and it's high time we stopped using the "more hp" skinning knife. Modern sports cars could all use a diet.
A C2S with the same horsepower as the current model but 250lb less weight would be a much better car, imho, than a C2S that enjoyed a horsepower bump but stayed the same weight. Ferrari is going in that direction and I hope Porsche does as well.
There's more than one way to skin this proverbial cat, and it's high time we stopped using the "more hp" skinning knife. Modern sports cars could all use a diet.
04-19-2008, 07:42 PM
#32
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Great article, and appropriate. I hate that shrimpy car, though.
BHP is a simple and crude indication as to how fast a car can accelerate, assuming we're talking about Ferrari's and Porsche's here. I am NOT talking about a Camaro or Mustang. Porsche has continued to increase the horsepower in their cars so they can reduce the time it takes to get from 0-60, or what it can run the ring in. There is no argument that Porsche can do more with less horsepower than just about any manufacturer out there. However, it is time for them to step it up notch, and they know it, we know and they are going to do it.
You could have bought a C2, not the S, but you bought the S for extra power and upgraded suspension. I drove the S and non and it was an easy decision for me. Lord help me if I drive the x51 version as I'll probably buy that damn thing (the turbo is over the top for me).
I am passionate about my cars. I had two 996's before moving to the 997, and the main factor for me was bhp, followed by a dramatic improvement on build-out of the inside and improved SUSPENSION.
I am not chasing bhp, I'm chasing a Porsche with a desire for a little more umf under the hood. And I don't want my Porsche on any more diets. Last diet cost me the spare tire!
BHP is a simple and crude indication as to how fast a car can accelerate, assuming we're talking about Ferrari's and Porsche's here. I am NOT talking about a Camaro or Mustang. Porsche has continued to increase the horsepower in their cars so they can reduce the time it takes to get from 0-60, or what it can run the ring in. There is no argument that Porsche can do more with less horsepower than just about any manufacturer out there. However, it is time for them to step it up notch, and they know it, we know and they are going to do it.
You could have bought a C2, not the S, but you bought the S for extra power and upgraded suspension. I drove the S and non and it was an easy decision for me. Lord help me if I drive the x51 version as I'll probably buy that damn thing (the turbo is over the top for me).
I am passionate about my cars. I had two 996's before moving to the 997, and the main factor for me was bhp, followed by a dramatic improvement on build-out of the inside and improved SUSPENSION.
I am not chasing bhp, I'm chasing a Porsche with a desire for a little more umf under the hood. And I don't want my Porsche on any more diets. Last diet cost me the spare tire!
04-19-2008, 08:02 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
Wow, I must really not be explaining myself well. I'd argue that you really don't care about "umf" at all -- you just want a Porsche that can accelerate faster. "Umf" is one approach to achieving acceleration, but it's not the best approach. You could just as accurately say that "weight is a simple and crude indication as to how fast a car can accelerate." (It's arguably more accurate, actually, since it's torque and not horsepower that most impacts acceleration, but I know what you mean)
An Ariel Atom will rip your ears off accelerating 0-60 and it does it with only 200hp. A Kenworth W900 tractor-trailer cab has 600hp and takes from here to Waco to get up to highway speeds. Horsepower is only half of the equation.
Wouldn't you just as happy (or happier) if Porsche accomplished that by losing some weight than if they just added a bit more power to the engine? Then, not only would you get the benefit of the better acceleration you want but you'd also get better handling and braking as well.
A good start would be to make PCCBs standard; Move to lighter weight interiors; Make the turbo's aluminum doors standard across the line. It wouldn't be as cheap as just goosing the engine for another 25hp but it would yield a much better car overall.
As for why I bought the S it had more to do with the brakes and xenon lights than the power of the engine. The S had enough options that I've had wanted to add to the car in any event that it would have been silly not to buy the S. I think both cars are heavier than they ought to be. In fact, was quite tempted by the 2800lb Boxster because of that.
An Ariel Atom will rip your ears off accelerating 0-60 and it does it with only 200hp. A Kenworth W900 tractor-trailer cab has 600hp and takes from here to Waco to get up to highway speeds. Horsepower is only half of the equation.
Wouldn't you just as happy (or happier) if Porsche accomplished that by losing some weight than if they just added a bit more power to the engine? Then, not only would you get the benefit of the better acceleration you want but you'd also get better handling and braking as well.
A good start would be to make PCCBs standard; Move to lighter weight interiors; Make the turbo's aluminum doors standard across the line. It wouldn't be as cheap as just goosing the engine for another 25hp but it would yield a much better car overall.
As for why I bought the S it had more to do with the brakes and xenon lights than the power of the engine. The S had enough options that I've had wanted to add to the car in any event that it would have been silly not to buy the S. I think both cars are heavier than they ought to be. In fact, was quite tempted by the 2800lb Boxster because of that.
04-19-2008, 10:21 PM
#35
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Again the TT has one of the greatest motors ever built by Porsche. The dry sump 3.6 liter
motor based on the infamous 98 GT1. The C4S motor is the best of one of the least motors
produced by Porshce. The "integrated dry sump" 3.8L motorbased on the "integrated dry sump" 3.6 L that was created to cut cost for Porsche when they were in dire straights in the late 90's. Thats a less expensive wet sump motor. To me its no question and if you are passionate about your cars like you say then the Turbo is your choice hands down.
No matter how much you mod the C4S you are still dragging that boat anchor out back.
With the TT all you have to do is change the suspension and you are getting close to a great car.
Motons and adjustable sways and you have a great motor in a great chassis with a great suspension.
Not only that but he TT motor is one of the all time great mod motors. I.E. an ECU mod, upgrade the turbos and you have a monster.
motor based on the infamous 98 GT1. The C4S motor is the best of one of the least motors
produced by Porshce. The "integrated dry sump" 3.8L motorbased on the "integrated dry sump" 3.6 L that was created to cut cost for Porsche when they were in dire straights in the late 90's. Thats a less expensive wet sump motor. To me its no question and if you are passionate about your cars like you say then the Turbo is your choice hands down.
No matter how much you mod the C4S you are still dragging that boat anchor out back.
With the TT all you have to do is change the suspension and you are getting close to a great car.
Motons and adjustable sways and you have a great motor in a great chassis with a great suspension.
Not only that but he TT motor is one of the all time great mod motors. I.E. an ECU mod, upgrade the turbos and you have a monster.
04-20-2008, 03:24 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
This one is easy - Turbo all the way. A stripped down turbo still has as many if not more options than a 'loaded' 997. Plus you get a bullet proof motor in the turbo - dry sump.
04-24-2008, 10:17 PM
#39
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
After some careful configuring, it comes down to $24k difference between the models when appropriately outfitted. That's not enough to scare me off from the turbo, it comes down to body style changes and what kind of kick in the pants the 997S gets. I will come back as soon as they open the list for orders as I hope to get the details of the changes on the 09 that will influence my decision. Thanks~
