newton982

I'm interested in your honest opinion on whether you think the Carrera and Carrera S are underpowered by todays standards.

I currently have a 2002 Turbo and 2002 Carrera. As I recently posted, I think the Carrera is an incredible car and I'm partial to it in many ways. I love the way it drives, looks and it's overall feel. In my opinion it's sleek, elegant and somewhat discreet. However, by todays standards I think it's just a little under-powered. I recently tried the 997 Carrera S but although it looked nicer and sounded better, on the street I just didn't feel there was a HUGE difference in performance from my 02 Carrera (I'm sure more differences will come out on the track) ... not meant to be inflamattory, just my opinion from my test drives.

I realize Porsche's have different attributes than all-out speed and hp, but I do think Porsche needs to do something with the baseline Carrera's to make them more of a performance benchmark - at least against M3s, RS4s and the like. I believe Ferrari faced a similar problem years ago and responded with a solid entry level car - the F430, that can hold it's own with almost anything out there.

damoncooper

Absolutely. The GM Corvette Z1 is 620HP, with 0-60 of 3.5 seconds with a top end of 200+MPH. Now, you can't make any turns in it or you die, but still.....

(As a previous Corvette owner, I feel I am authorized to make that last statement, by the way!)

But I think Porsche needs to get a reality check and re-design and re-engineer every engine to supercharge everything and add 150HP to every car.

My humble $0.02.

Damon

Alstoy

It is underpowered IF you go from a turbo. It is overpowered if you go from a Yugo. I don't track (but have cruised the Autobhan in tripple digits) and a C2 is more than enough for me. I considered the M3 but, it has gotten way too heavy for my liking. How much horse power did the '72 RSR have?

Edgy01

As a long time owner of Porsches (since the early 1970s) I think you're absolutely wrong. There is plenty of HP in the Carrera. What is lacking is the driving skills of the majority of drivers out there. Until you can prove yourself in a 200 HP car what's the point of giving you twice that? You'll just kill yourself earlier/quicker.

Bob Rouleau

I think the question is "underpowered compared to what"?
Consider the price of a C2 versus a 430. Does it surprise you that a 430 has more power? Compare the 997 GT2 and the 430 is you want to stay in a similar price range. The Vette is a performance bargain. No two ways about it, but that has always been the way. It will be interesting to see how the Z06 stands up after a few years of hard use.

best,

wetstuff

....on top of all this humiliation, Mercedes has a new SL 500.



http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-new...r-ar54703.html

points

I dont compare my porsche to vettes...never have liked the design or the feel of the car. In the days of my youth I liked 442's or GTO's better than vettes.

MUSSBERGER

At the Glen I remember a lot of "underpowered" 997's and 996's up my *** coming up through the Esses and leaving me as if I was standing still coming out of the toe. Although on paper the 987S will out brake and out corner, it could never overcome the the power of the 99's. I now have a 997

triode

I think, for a normally aspirated 6, the 911 has impressive power. I mean, the 997S you test drove does 0-60 in something like 4.6 secs.

Of course, if you compare it to supercharged honkin' Chevy V8s, or $250K V8 Ferraris, it will come up short on raw power. Porsche has always been about the balance between power & handling, and overall driving feel.

Ucube

I'd say the 911 only seems underpowered on paper. When you look at spec sheets across the different competitors, low to mid-300s doesn't sound like much HP. Behind the wheel, however, it certainly feels more than adequate.

htny

I went through a lot of machinations regarding power in the 911 prior to moving to 996. I happen to have a kinda hotrod german V8 uber-sedan which is probably faster in a drag race than my Carrera, but when driven back to back feels like a buick by comparison in even the mildest turns.

I do think that 320ish bhp in the base cars is down on power compared to most current offerings from other manufacturers, and that power level has been fairly constant since 2002, definitely in need of a little update from the perspective of showing steady progress and improvement. I do think the 380ish bhp in an x51 997S is a nice amount of power, sounds nice, revs well, but that 320ish is way too close to the cayman/boxster S variants.

The GT-R is getting a lot of press for delivering turbo+ performance at a C2 price, but it's definitely not a 911, neither is a corvette, a long available viper, or any SL (even the alcohol burning 8 liter ones!). It's the same old story, the 911 basically is without competition in base trim, even though every year for the past 40 years it's had continuously "improved" corvettes, vipers, NSXs, etc. debut, compete, and largely fail to gain much share in the hearts, minds or wallets of Porsche buyers.

Still. to continue to be able to sell a car which is effectively changeless in great numbers for so many years is testament either to the 911's competence or our collective foolishness. To borrow from the former modesty of Rolls-Royce, I think a Carrera's power might be rated adequate, the turbo more than adequate. IMHO the Carrera is the ultimate compromise car, the kind you can treat like a regular car but goes like a near-supercar, that I actually do buy groceries in, that I drive like I stole and still put away wet. Sure it won't win me any drag races, and maybe these days won't do as well against equally talented competition on a racetrack, but I, like most current 911 owners I speak to in the real world, don't drag race, am self admittedly not Walter Röhrl, and don't want to make every policeman's mouth water each time I barrel through their little town. I just want a car that starts when I turn the key, sticks when I turn in, puts a smile on my face when I step on the gas, stays its pretty self out of the shop as much as possible, and is worth a few bucks when I decide to sell.

But yeah, down on power

pongobaz

No, I don't think Porsches are about claiming "king of the hp wars". There has always and will always be cars with more power, but it's how it's balanced with the rest of the performance that's more important to me.
A few years ago you could buy a dodge Neon SRT4 and with a few bolt-ons from Mopar, you'd be over 300hp...so what, I still wouldn't be caught dead driving one. I've driven plenty of more powerful cars from BMWs to Benzes, but the Porsche is the most fun car I've ever driven...it's the benchmark for me.

cello

I think it is underpowered in the "American" sense. That is, the 911 (the S or the base) is not a stop light to stop light, 0 to 60, straight line blaster. You can get better numbers for that type of use with less money, for sure. If one measures a car in these terms, then the Vette, for example, is the right buy.

The better question is whether it is 'underpowered' for its intended use? There, I think the answer is no. There is not a car that could not use more power. However, on balance, and i mean that word, the 911 (S or base) does more things right than any other car at the price point. Of course that presupposes one agrees that its 'intended use' is to go fast thru a myriad of road types which includes (a lot of ?) curves.

I have been out driving with some other serious machinery owned by friends, friends of friends, etc., and I have driven a lot of very nice cars. After switching cars, the one thing they all say is how fast the 911 is thru all of the selected course ran (which of course means how fast it carries thru corners to non owners). A lot of other cars I have driven can corner but it is work to carry speed thru corners (generally, one survives the corners, powering thru the straights, etc, with most).

Long winded "I agree it is adequately powered" so long as one realizes its raison d'etra

newton982

I am not comparing a carrera to a 430. They are both entry level models in their respective brands (taking the boxter out of the mix) and my point is how the entry level models stack up vs. their typical competition.

newton982

The majority of US driving is highways, perhaps with a few sweeping curves with 75/80 mph speed limits... this is the reality of my driving environment. Most of the time, I find it more enjoyable to drive my Turbo with the extra power. Maybe it's juvenille, but I enjoy getting up to 75/80 quickly and having a quick burst here and there on on-ramps. Now if I happen to be deliberately looking for some nice twisty roads, the Carrera might be more fun .... but this happens a lot less frequently than I'd like. In the mid-west where I live there are not a lot of roads like this.

If you're predominantly on the track or live in surroundings that have lots of twisties, I'd agree with your statement, but in the majority of the US (which makes up a significant amount of 911 sales) I do think a little extra power and torque would not hurt. I suppose one could argue that this is why Porsche offers a Turbo in addition to a Carrera but new price differentials of $130K vs $80K is quite a jump.

Think about this way also, everytime the new generation M3s have been released, there has always been a lot of fanfare and they have usually served as some sort of performance benchmark. When is the last time this was the case of a new generation 911 launch? My belief is that the base 911 should be a benchmark of performance and as times goes by I am less and less convinced that it is.

This is not meant to start an argument - afterall I have a Turbo and a Carrera and I do appreciate both models. I am just curious as to whether anyone else shares my line of thought and if not, I'm interested to hear your reasoning.