Last hurrah for performance cars?
02-14-2008, 02:56 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
I don't see the problem. The issue is CO2 emissions, not power or performance. The challenge is for manufacturers to be creative and look for solutions that maintain performance expectations whilst reducing CO2 emissions. Porsche can reinvest some of it's cash into this challenge and put its best engineers onto the job.
Back in 1985 my girlfriend had a Honda CRX, which achieved better than 50 mpg on regular unleaded gas. If they could do it 24 years ago, I can't understand why they're not doing it now.
02-14-2008, 03:31 PM
#17
Poseur
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
They were telling us the same thing in the early 1970s. Even Professor Porsche used to say that no challenge was insurmountable. Technology will prevail!
02-14-2008, 04:44 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
- the engine in that old CRX would not pass today's new car emissions standards
- Safety requirements. US Gov standards for safety have changed significantly since 1985 and when you add airbags, stability control, etc. on to that vehicle your MPG suffers
- Consumer requirements - very few consumers would accept a lightweight car (like the old CRX) that trades efficiency for comfort. Today's consumer want power everything, heated and cooled seats and gloveboxes and a 9 billion watt stereo
- Limited marketability. Honda couldn't give away the Insight (a small, 2 door hatchback like the CRX) and they sell a lot less Civic hybrids than Toyota does Prius. Maybe some of that is due to a inferior product but I personally believe that much of it has to do with people buy Hybrids because it's "cool" and a Prius is like a bright yellow Lance Armstrong wristband for the environmentally sensitive hip crowd.
I loved the old CRX and am enamored with the idea of a lightweight, no frills sports car but honestly wouldn't drive a Lotus Elise on S. CA highways for all the tea in China. And I suspect that I'm not the only one.
02-14-2008, 04:45 PM
#19
Imagine being alive and old enough to buy any American muscle car you wanted from 1966 to 1971. Every year horsepower continued to increase. Then in 1973 the party abruptly ended due to emission standards. Looking back at it today it seems like a dream considering most of these cars that survived are sold at auction for mind boggling amounts. Guess what...we are living in that dream today. Todays performance cars exceed the muscle cars of days past with emissions that are bare fractions of those cars We are living in the last golden age of performance cars and yet once again this party is just about over. CO2 emission regulations will put a end to performance cars as we know them. California has already passed CO2 regulations. The auto industry is fighting a losing battle to delay these from becoming a national standard. Europe is not far behind and in some case ahead of the US. The new (and last) versions of the Cobra, Challenger SRT, Camero SS, Viper and GTFord may end up being as valuable than their 60's counter parts. As for Porsche's, who knows. Mid 60 to early 70 haven't held up well resale wise against muscle cars of the same era. Old BMW or MBZ haven't done very well either (except for a few tii's or MBZ rag tops). But for now, enjoy the party while it lasts. Take good care of your ride and who knows you may wake up one morning 20 years from know owning a high performance classic from those good old days at the turn of the century worth a small fortune.
02-14-2008, 05:13 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Know where I can buy some carbon credit? On a more serious note, our cars strike a great balance between performance and carbon footprint. As I am on probation (speeding ticket) until April I have been getting around 22mpg in town! What other sports car does that.
02-14-2008, 06:10 PM
#22
There's another way to increase performance while reducing CO2 which hasn't been mentioned much in this post - Reduce weight. There are a lot of advances in materials that should enable large gains in automobile weights.
I just look at my newer road bike that weighs around 16lbs using materials such as carbon, and compare it to my prior 10 speed that weighed so much more.
I believe global warming is real, and must be dealt with. I hope technology continues to move things forward. Back in the 1970's many automakers fought emissions control as well; have any of you seen the pollution in Manila recently to appreciate how much emissions help?
John
I just look at my newer road bike that weighs around 16lbs using materials such as carbon, and compare it to my prior 10 speed that weighed so much more.
I believe global warming is real, and must be dealt with. I hope technology continues to move things forward. Back in the 1970's many automakers fought emissions control as well; have any of you seen the pollution in Manila recently to appreciate how much emissions help?
John
02-14-2008, 07:56 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Technology may prevail, but it will do so by getting us OFF oil. That's why it is essential that we force automakers to produce far more fuel-efficient cars.
02-14-2008, 08:08 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Problem is, I don't know how you can make a car lighter without sacrificing safety, which is something most car buyers won't tolerate, to say nothing of the DOT. Carbon fiber is wonderful but it's also extremely expensive. Buyers demand cars that are both safe and cheap, which requires heavy steel and aluminum.
02-14-2008, 08:31 PM
#26
5th Gear
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
02-14-2008, 08:48 PM
#27
Bio-fuels, especially biodiesel, may make diesel engine sports cars a high performance reality. Can you spell Audi?
02-14-2008, 11:36 PM
#28
Drifting
Forget changing the powerplants - you want to drive an electric Corvette? a hybrid drive 911? The overall driving experience just will not be the same.
I think direct injection is the end of the line for what the traditional gasoline engine can do as far as MPG. Weight reduction is indeed the only way to balance the coming reductions in engine power output as CO2 restrictions get tighter, keeping the power/weight equation the same. Carbon fiber infused plastics aren't going to be cheap.
I think direct injection is the end of the line for what the traditional gasoline engine can do as far as MPG. Weight reduction is indeed the only way to balance the coming reductions in engine power output as CO2 restrictions get tighter, keeping the power/weight equation the same. Carbon fiber infused plastics aren't going to be cheap.
02-15-2008, 12:16 AM
#29
Drifting
There must be something about human nature that makes us say 1) things are going downhill, 2) this is the last golden age, 3) things are at their zenith now and will be crap in the future.
Rubbish! Baloney! B*llsh*t!
Human inventiveness and innovation will prevail. It always has and always will. Period.
Rubbish! Baloney! B*llsh*t!
Human inventiveness and innovation will prevail. It always has and always will. Period.
02-15-2008, 01:21 AM
#30
