doctorpcar

I drove the C4 and C4S this weekend, one night back to the next day.

I drove the C4S first and C4 next.

The power and braking differences were obvious, they were nice, I wouldn't complain.

However, I noticed something else, the C4S felt heavier, especially in turns. I don't know if that was my imagination, or what? So I am wondering, does the S have a bit less low end torque in the curve? Anyone have the torque and power curves of both cars to compare?

Or, is it that the C4S is slightly heavier and its noticeable at slower speeds in the turns? I was not driving the car hard at all. Could the added weight of the extra .2 liter engine and the bigger brakes (more unsprung weight) be enough to be noticed at more sane speeds?

Or am I imagining the whole thing?

Thanks for honest feedback, this is no trolling on my part I am sincerely trying to come to grips with whether I should go with one or the other.

Nugget

If you found yourself sensitive to the 4's less nimble handling, particularly in turns, why not do it right and get a C2S? IMHO, the existence of the "4" cars was driven by marketing, not engineering. It's worth noting that neither the GT2 or GT3 seem to need four wheel drive.

doctorpcar

OK well to answer my own question partially, I realized I could compare curb weight on porscheusa, and it shows the C4S is indeed 95 lbs. heavier. So it is entirely possible that at normal to casually spirited driving that the extra weight is felt?

C4 P/W 9.71
C4S P/W 9.16

doctorpcar

Well I felt the C4 was quite nimble, it was the C4S that felt a bit heavier around turns at slow to medium speeds, so not sure what the C2/S would do here.

As far as the 4 vs. 2, for me its a practicality issue. I need a daily driver and the added comfort during bad rain days and snow. So the 2 is a non starter. As it were though I've seen it written that the wider track width gives the 4 an advantage in the corners, not that I would notice as I'm not going to track it.

Nugget

This is exactly my point. In my experience the "4" really isn't adding as much as you'd think it does. With all that weight over the rear tires the 911 really doesn't need four wheel drive for traction or stability. The lighter weight of the "2"s coupled with the more sensitive steering feel goes a really long way. I don't hesitate to take my 2S out in nasty weather and I've never wished for four wheel drive. Certainly not when you consider what you give up for it (weight and nimbleness).

Don't knock the 2WD cars. They're not scary or unsafe in bad weather.

Edit: If you hadn't expressed discontent with the weight of the 4S I'd have never brought it up. I'm sure there are thousands of drivers out there who aren't sensitive to weight and nimble handling who would be perfectly happy with a 4 or 4S. But if the weight of the 4S bothered you then I think you're doing yourself a disservice not considering a C2S. Seriously.

doctorpcar

OK certainly didn't mean to knock the C2s at all, maybe it is my ignorance or maybe it is my Audi owner background that makes me feel a lot better with 4 wheels. I will take your thoughts under advisement.

I understand the rear weight helps with traction, wet or dry, but I guess I am concerned about that one off time where things get out of hand, maybe I get hit by another car in the snow, and the rear end of the car comes completely lose, there are still going to be times when the extra 2 wheels up front are going to save the bacon no?

I also like the rarity of the 4s as in my area everyone has the 2s (here I served you a fat pitch)

Btw, I do have a buddy who has the C2S with X51 and he says its undriveable in bad weather. Is that because of the X51, or is he potentially mistaken?

Thanks again for all the feedback.

Nugget

IMHO, nine times out of nine it's going to be the stability management that saves your bacon, not the two extra driven wheels -- and they've all got PSM.

No way to know for sure, but it certainly doesn't match my experiences. Is he swapping out the summer tires for all-season or snow tires? You're going to have to do this on any 911 if you want it to be drivable in the winter. Summer-compound tires will turn into bowling ***** when the temperatures drop.

Bottom line -- it's impossible to make the wrong decision here.

p-cardriver

I spent a lot of time going back and forth between the 2 and 4 before deciding to get the 2S, for exactly the reasons you mention doctorpcar (bad weather traction). I also previously had an Audi A4, although I'd been driving 2WD BMWs in between.

After reading the posts on this board and some others, plus talking with a lot of PCA members in my area, I came to the conclusion that the 4WD on 997s is not about bad weather traction so much as it is about high-performance dry cornering (coming out of the corner, less pushing). And maybe it helps put some more balance toward the front of the car, but at the expense of more total weight. So I went with a C2S and winter wheels/tires (18 inch for winter, probably stay with the 19s for summer). I've driven it on snow, ice, wet and dry roads for 2,100 miles since I bought it in late November (07), and haven't regretted passing on the 4 at all. The combination of winter tires with PSM and ABS is more than sufficient from subdivision speeds all the way up into the 90s in my experience.

Still love the look of the 4s, however (cabs, too). You know, they're all so darn good and fun you might as well just get whatever you prefer and not look back!

YMMV of course.
p-cardriver

doctorpcar

Well the other factor is that after years of selling my better half on the importance of AWD for safety, it will be a tough course reversal to suddenly decide AWD is not needed, and on a ridiculously high performance car to boot.

So you never found yourself losing control of the car at all?

You did make my decision making process much harder however Thx for the great feedback.

CBejbl

Maybe the tire pressures were low on the C4S ?

p-cardriver

No loss of control. When the roads are really slick I can make it try to fish tail but the PSM comes on really fast and locks it down. Most of the time the PSM doesn't even activate.

So again, get whatever you want. If you're feeling more comfortable and secure on top of AWD, then get the 4 and end the worries. Too much money to have a lot of second thoughts or buyer's remorse.

p-cardriver

cello

I would rec that you try to get an extended audition with each (half day/half day).

I was fortunate to be able to do an extended test drive of one and to borrow the other. I think in time you would "learn" the way to use each engine best. Many here love the torque/grunt/power of the 3.8. I fall into the camp of those that prefer the way the 3.6 spools and revs. I liked the 3.8. But i liked the 3.6 better for where and how I was going to use/drive the car. While the 3.8 is heavier, I think your impressions are really a result of not knowing (yet) how best to "use" the motor. Bottom line, once you decide and buy, you then "learn" your engine and the pre-purchase decisions matter less and less.

I have the 4 as well. There is a different feel to a 4. In the pure rear wheel set up you are 'pushed'. Many consider this the P car experience. In the 4, you are 'pulled' as well as pushed. It is a different experience, not better for sure but not necessarily worse.

axhoaxho

The C4 is wearing 235/40-18 and 295/35-18 tires, the C4S 235/35-19 and 305/30-19 tires. Since you were not even driving both cars hard at all, I wonder if your impression of the difference is largerly due to the different tires on both cars.

With best regards,

911Dave

Nugget seems to be trying to argue 2 vs. 4, when your original question had nothing to do with that.

If you're willing to sacrifice a slight nimbleness in steering to gain stability in the corners, especially on a slick surface, then by all means the 4 is for you. It's not about saving your bacon, it's about not getting your bacon into trouble in the first place.

To address your question directly, the S is a tad heavier so you certainly could notice it during slow speed cornering. But the S also has more torque to dig you out of the corner, and is a faster car overall (but not a night and day difference). Lots of guys here are perfectly satisfied with the base C4, and it all boils down to how you want to drive it. If you don't intend to make use of all 355 horses, then I'd save the dough and take the C4.

pred8or

I think ax got it right with the tire size difference in feel. A wider bigger tire should create more resistance? Yes weight matters but 95lbs not being driven spiritedly would never be notice by the "average" person. Heck I weight a whopping 135lbs and I am sure there are plenty of Porsche drivers that weight 220+. I too decided to go with a 4 and an s for year round driveability. Coming from an M3 I really felt that push of the 2. No the 4 isnt needed , just snow tires are, but the 4 will take off much better (specially on hills) in the weather. Certainly isnt gonna stop any faster but much less likely to get stuck that is for sure. There are definitely less widebody cars around too! As to my S decision by the time you put a few options on the 4 , might as well bump up!