Hello,

I'm new to this forum. I've owned Pcars in the past (996C4, 996Turbo) and recently I've been thinking about trading in my RS4 for a sports car. I've driven just about everything including the R8, 997GT3, Turbo, M6, etc., etc., etc. and the car I think I'm settling on is 997 C2S or C4S. I forgot how much I love the 911 and the 997 is an amazing car. The turbo is nice but big $$$. I don't track my street cars nowadays insurance being the way it is so GT3 doesn't make a lot of sense for me. The R8 also really nice (I have a deposit down on one now and about to place my order very shortly) but it's very flashy and having people drool all over my car will drive my crazy, so I'm having second thoughts. I also like the way the 997 looks better than the R8 but I do think you get more car for the money w/ the R8 and thus the dilema.

I do have some questions if folks can help.

1) Is there anything new on the horizon for the 997 C2/4 S that I should be aware of such as a power bump or other significant change that would make it worthwhile to wait a little longer?

2) Are all those engine casting problems found in the 996 sorted out for the 997? One of the big things I like about the GT3 and Turbo is the GT1 derived motor so it's good, strong, and sorted.

3) The power kit is way, way overpriced IMO. What are you getting for the money? Hopefully more than an ECU remap and different exhaust.

4) I live in the Seattle area. How good is the C2S in the rain? For me the benefit of the C2S is less weight, less cost, and possibly less understeer. I don't plan to drive the car in the snow and ice, which we rarely get here but we do get a lot of rain in the fall and winter. Recommendations?

5) How's PASM? It sounds good on paper (and felt good on the test drive) but are folks happy w/ it? If it's trash and people are throwing away the system by installing Motons, etc., then it would be a waste to order PASM unless is comes standard w/ the car in which case, oh well.

6) What are the basic mods worth doing (every car has at least some). I understand there's a lowering kit that's compatible w/ PASM which sounds worthwhile. Others?

Thanks for any advice, etc.

-Roland.

 

Do a search.... Your questions have been addressed many, many times before.

 

Hi Roland,

Some of my answers/opinions:

Direct injection should be in 09 models if memory serves? Means about 10-20 more hp.

Knock on wood haven't heard of any recent failures and haven't heard of any RMS issues.

X51 includes:
reworked cylinder heads, crankshaft, intake, exhaust, and ECU. Worth the money? Not for me, you can get an aftermarket SC for that price.

If you're not a daily with it I'd say stick with the C2S.


Well if you get the S PASM comes standard.


Cheapest mod are the clear side markers Which I recently got. I plan on getting R-Comp tires for the track otherwise my car is pretty much stock and I plan to keep it that way. It does a good enough job for me!

Good Luck!

 

The C2S is just as planted in the rain as the C4S. Take a look at the lap times for both on the Ring -- rain or shine, it's all about the tires in this car. If you drive in the snow, the C4S is probably the better fit. I've had my C2S at about 9/10 on Lime Rock and Watkins Glen and I was amazed at just how quick the car with PS2 tires was -- just seconds behind dry lap times.

No engine issues here. 7500 miles with 50% on track. Used 1/2 liter of oil during break in, none since. Extremely tight and powerful engine.

I debated the X51 and knew that if I got it, I'd still go with aftermarket headers, cats, and mufflers for freer flow and better sound (can't hear oem through a helmet on the track). I also added Revo software and if you search on my name here at the forum, you can read my review (excellent HP/TQ and response improvement).

PASM is fine for street and light track use. Depending on the track, you might find yourself sticking with normal (bumpy like Lime Rock), but at Watkins Glen, Sport is quicker. Don't be in a hurry to Mod the car -- it's a great car as it is and you might drive it a year and still feel there's no change that needs to be made. I've heard of many failures of PASM shocks due to lowering springs -- per Porsche and Farnbacher Loles (who set up my alignment), you should never mix aftermarket springs with a system design like PASM. The valves aren't matched and you will get premature failure. Many know this and do it anyway for some mysterious theory that the car "looks better" when lower to the ground. I never understood that If you are a track junkie and "need" the car lowered, stick with PSS, which is designed together and is adjustable (sport vs. normal) via your PASM button.

I only am interested in performance gain items. I ordered my C2S with only Sport seats and Fire extinguisher (required for PCA events). Everything else is "fluff" and doesn't make the car go any faster or perform any better. After purchase I picked up GT3 Cup control arms for more camber up front, the aforementioned AWE headers, cats, and mufflers, SRF brake fluid, and PFC 97 pads.

 

Thanks Kurt/Ron. I appreciate the comments.

Ron, I must admit, I'm in that class of folks who'd prefer to see the car sit a little lower than stock. It doesn't have to be slammed down, but I don't like the big wheel gap. I can see how changing the spring rates can mess up PASM (and just like any damper, the springs much be matched -- active or not), but lowering the car while retaining the same spring rate should be OK I would think.

 

The problem is you cannot even get aftermarket spring makers to admit as to what their spring rates are. So you have no way to try to match up in order to allow the oem valving to be as compatible as possible. I've heard there are different ride heights and rides available, depending on which supplier you go with. I just remember reading a few too many posts about people spending 3-4k replacing their PASM suspensions because the aftermarket springs blew the shocks. Maybe instead of lowering springs, consider the Bilstein PSS PASM system for your car?

 

That sounds like a good option. I just read-up on those a little. Are they truly PASM compatible? I.e., do you retain the active suspension or are you basically giving up the PASM for a conventional, passive system? I realize they say "compatible" but the marketing weenies can spin things just about any which way.

Btw, I haven't purchased the car yet. I like to know my options before buying the car, etc., so there are no surprises etc. I think I'm going to go w/ the C2S based on what I've read and advice from people like yourself (thanks). I just wish it had the wider hips like the C4S and then it would be a no brainer!!

 

The PSS is made for PASM, so when you hit sport, it adjusts the valving just like OEM.

 

Cool. Thanks. I'll likely go w/ the PSS then. Btw, I sealed the deal on an '07 C2S. It'll be 2-3 weeks before I see it because it's coming from across the country, but it was just what I was looking for (Atlas/Black, w/ Adaptive Sport Seats) and I got a healthy discount because it's an '07. Just as my R8 build slot came up too. But there's something about the 911 that is very emotional for me and it doesn't hurt that, with the discount, the C2 is over $30k cheaper.

 

What is different about the crankshaft?

 

I really like my 997/4S and especially the PASM. I wanted a 997 for PASM. The regular mode is great for the street. The "sport" mode is way too stiff on the street, but great for the track - which is what I think it was meant for. The ability to switch suspension modes is really friendly. I did have GT3/996 front control arms put in so that I could get more negative camber than the stock allowed. (996 half the cost of 997 and only minor differences for a mixed use car). That one suspension mod really made a HUGE difference. Car is more neutral, turns in nimbly and I can get back on power sooner. The 4S is a little heavier, but I like the way it handles and applies power especially in the wet and on cold/wet mixed traction surfaces. The wider track and brakes are nice too.

I might flash the ECU and swap the exhaust at some point, but not until I have learned to get everything that I can out of the car as it is - that will take a while. I suggest that you do the same

 

Kurt, X51 install instructions don't mention going any "deeper" than replacing the heads; since the cases don't split, crank has to be the same as stock motor...