Heavy front end collision in my C2S
07-27-2007, 03:28 PM
#61
Burning Brakes
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Forgive me if this has been asked-
1. If there's not diminished value, should you expect to get the same money for the car on the market as you would have prior to the accident. Can the insurance company promise this?
2. Does "Total" differ from car to car. A "high value performance" car has more precision and the slightest imperfection in repair would have a greater impact than an "average" car. Another words a Yugo (sorry if anyone owns one-really sorry) repair would not need to be as perfect as a Porsche repair, all things held constant.
1. If there's not diminished value, should you expect to get the same money for the car on the market as you would have prior to the accident. Can the insurance company promise this?
2. Does "Total" differ from car to car. A "high value performance" car has more precision and the slightest imperfection in repair would have a greater impact than an "average" car. Another words a Yugo (sorry if anyone owns one-really sorry) repair would not need to be as perfect as a Porsche repair, all things held constant.
07-27-2007, 03:33 PM
#62
I think that insurance compaines base a total loss upon the percentage of the cars value that it would require to repair it. So, yes, it would be greater for a more expensive car.
In any case this whole DV B.S. makes me just want to lease my next car and let the lessee assume these problems. I know that there's a price to be paid for this.
In any case this whole DV B.S. makes me just want to lease my next car and let the lessee assume these problems. I know that there's a price to be paid for this.
07-27-2007, 04:03 PM
#63
Originally Posted by eilig
Okay armchair estimators, have at it.
Whatever you do, bring it to a very reputable body shop. Some shops will actually low ball the insurance company to get the job and ask for more later. And if the insurance doesn't pay, they will cut corners and you will be stuck with a car with forever alignment problems...
07-27-2007, 04:09 PM
#64
Drifting
Originally Posted by wilfred
My guess is $35k-40k if the frame is straight. But based on the pic of the sunroof weatherstripping sticking out and passenger window out of track, the frame might be twisted and if that's the case, it's totaled.
07-27-2007, 06:58 PM
#65
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Originally Posted by DJ23
my insurance company didn't have dimished value coverage. I have Travelers by the way.
With all the talk of diminished value it did prompt me to pull out my insurance policy (Geico) and lo and behold, they specifically exclude diminution of value: "and will not include compensation for any diminution of value for the property claimed in the loss" (you never read these things until you need them).
I called the insurance company to inquire if the coverage was available for additional charge and they explained that it is not offered on new vehicles, only classics and antiques. My explanation to the representative of why a Porsche is indeed a "classic" fell on deaf ears.
Does anyone have such coverage in their policy? Any recommendations? Something everyone should consider.
07-27-2007, 07:24 PM
#66
when you sell. just advertise it well:
1) front end stone chips professionally repaired
2) windshield like new
3)headlights recently aligned
4)fresh airbag propellant
5)wheel alignment recently done
6)paint carefully examined and any scratches and repaired at no expense spared
Seriously, I'm glad you were not more seriously injured, hope you heal soon and well
1) front end stone chips professionally repaired
2) windshield like new
3)headlights recently aligned
4)fresh airbag propellant
5)wheel alignment recently done
6)paint carefully examined and any scratches and repaired at no expense spared
Seriously, I'm glad you were not more seriously injured, hope you heal soon and well
07-27-2007, 07:33 PM
#67
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For those who care to follow the DV issue a little further. Below is the guidance given to me by a qualified DV appraiser. This is basically their FAQ and guidance. Note that I ‘X’d out any actual company references.
I just went thru this... (I left my insurance company out and handled all claims as a 3rd party against the at faults insurance company. The only way to get DV in most instances, and in my case, no risk of rising insurance rates.)
A. Low Ball Offers: Get them to hire their own diminished value specialist as you did. You paid a fee for a licensed independent appraiser and they need to do the same to show they are handling the claim in good faith. Also, you can decrease your offer in nominal increments to show you are acting in good faith.
B. The adjuster refuses to return your call: Document every time you call and leave a message with the assigned adjuster and on the third message leave the message that you have documented each time that you have called and if they don’t call you back you within 48 hours you will call their supervisor. If you do call the supervisor and they still continue to not call you back tell the supervisor you are being forced to call the state insurance commissioner On X’s website we have all of the insurance commissioners telephone numbers.
C. The adjuster is calculating your diminished value settlement off of the Georgia 17c formula. The 17c formula came out of the class action lawsuit against State Farm in 2001 and only applies to claims in that lawsuit against State Farm in Georgia. Also, this claim is a third party claim and the diminished value claims in the 17c formula were all first party claimants. You do not have a policy with the insurance company, you are a claimant. The insurance company is trying to compare apples to oranges.
D. The repairs are done to industry standards and the vehicle has not sustained diminished value. Go to a local dealership and obtain a trade in offer documenting the pre-loss value of the vehicle to the post-repaired amount for the vehicle. CarMax is great at giving dealer trade in quotes and they will typically document the loss in value is due to the repair. Also, on www.nada.com and www.kbb.com it documents the value of the vehicle before the wreck and the value of the vehicle after the wreck. You can print those quotes out and also send the information to the adjuster. The more documentation you have to reinforcement the diminished value, typically, the more you will get for your diminished value check.
E. The adjuster states you need to sell your vehicle to prove you have loss value in your vehicle: Do not sell your vehicle because the vehicle is your proof that the vehicle has been diminished. Many times insurance company will want to inspect your vehicle and if you sell the vehicle then the insurance company will sometimes use that as an excuse not to pay the claim. Ask them to show you the state law in writing where it states you must sell your car to proof your diminished value claim.
F. The adjuster states they have repaired the vehicle to industry standards and the insurance company is not obligated to pay diminished value. The insurance company is obligated to make you whole. The insurance company chose to insure the at – fault party and the at–fault party is negligent or at fault. If a party has been injured and or his/ her vehicle has been injured, as a result of the others negligence the victim is entitled to be made whole. You are just asking to be made whole and in the same position as you were before their insured hit you. If repairs to the vehicle do not restore the vehicle to it’s original condition and value, then the owner is entitled to compensation for the difference in value of the vehicle before the damage occurred and the value of the vehicle after the repairs are completed.
G. X has not looked at the vehicle so they do not have to pay the diminished value claim: Typically, we do inspect the vehicle but not always. It is X’s policy that if we can save our clients money we will. Since we do 100-200 appraisal a month we have a pretty good idea of which insurance company’s want a physical inspection, and there are only a few. If during the negotiations, the adjuster mentions the vehicle was not inspected have them put in writing that they will pay the listed diminished value amount in our appraisal once the vehicle has been inspected.
H. The insurance company states you need to file the diminished value claim with your insurance company: This is typically false. 99% of the time diminished value is excluded under the liability portion of your policy. The only exclusions maybe are under the UMPD portion of your policy or if you live in GA.
I. The adjuster continues to tell you information that you feel is false. If it sounds untrue it probably is.. Have your adjuster write down and or them email to you the information you feel is false. Typically, adjusters will not put in a writing a falsehood. If the information changes once you ask them to write it down you got your answer.
J. The adjuster keep on quoting case law stating they don’t have to pay third part diminished value: Have the adjuster put in writing the name and number of the law. Call your state Insurance Commissioner, their information is on our website X.com and ask them specifically about the law making sure the employee knows the claim is a third party claim. Once you have the correct information make sure you have the employee’s name and number and refer your adjuster to that specific person.
K. The Insurance Company does hire another appraiser and they come in very low: Ask the insurance company for a copy of that appraisal and forward the appraisal to X and we will help you find discrepancies in the appraisal and help you re- negotiate the DV settlement. Many times the other appraiser will use the 17C amount and X can help you with the negotiations.
L. The adjuster continues to give you a low ball/ nuisance settlement and they state they do not have the authority to increase the offer.. Ask them to give you the name and number of the person who does have the authority. Also, if they don’t want to give you their supervisors name and number you can look up the insurance company’s toll free number on their website. Once you call the toll free number, give them your claim number and ask for the adjusters supervisor number.
I just went thru this... (I left my insurance company out and handled all claims as a 3rd party against the at faults insurance company. The only way to get DV in most instances, and in my case, no risk of rising insurance rates.)
A. Low Ball Offers: Get them to hire their own diminished value specialist as you did. You paid a fee for a licensed independent appraiser and they need to do the same to show they are handling the claim in good faith. Also, you can decrease your offer in nominal increments to show you are acting in good faith.
B. The adjuster refuses to return your call: Document every time you call and leave a message with the assigned adjuster and on the third message leave the message that you have documented each time that you have called and if they don’t call you back you within 48 hours you will call their supervisor. If you do call the supervisor and they still continue to not call you back tell the supervisor you are being forced to call the state insurance commissioner On X’s website we have all of the insurance commissioners telephone numbers.
C. The adjuster is calculating your diminished value settlement off of the Georgia 17c formula. The 17c formula came out of the class action lawsuit against State Farm in 2001 and only applies to claims in that lawsuit against State Farm in Georgia. Also, this claim is a third party claim and the diminished value claims in the 17c formula were all first party claimants. You do not have a policy with the insurance company, you are a claimant. The insurance company is trying to compare apples to oranges.
D. The repairs are done to industry standards and the vehicle has not sustained diminished value. Go to a local dealership and obtain a trade in offer documenting the pre-loss value of the vehicle to the post-repaired amount for the vehicle. CarMax is great at giving dealer trade in quotes and they will typically document the loss in value is due to the repair. Also, on www.nada.com and www.kbb.com it documents the value of the vehicle before the wreck and the value of the vehicle after the wreck. You can print those quotes out and also send the information to the adjuster. The more documentation you have to reinforcement the diminished value, typically, the more you will get for your diminished value check.
E. The adjuster states you need to sell your vehicle to prove you have loss value in your vehicle: Do not sell your vehicle because the vehicle is your proof that the vehicle has been diminished. Many times insurance company will want to inspect your vehicle and if you sell the vehicle then the insurance company will sometimes use that as an excuse not to pay the claim. Ask them to show you the state law in writing where it states you must sell your car to proof your diminished value claim.
F. The adjuster states they have repaired the vehicle to industry standards and the insurance company is not obligated to pay diminished value. The insurance company is obligated to make you whole. The insurance company chose to insure the at – fault party and the at–fault party is negligent or at fault. If a party has been injured and or his/ her vehicle has been injured, as a result of the others negligence the victim is entitled to be made whole. You are just asking to be made whole and in the same position as you were before their insured hit you. If repairs to the vehicle do not restore the vehicle to it’s original condition and value, then the owner is entitled to compensation for the difference in value of the vehicle before the damage occurred and the value of the vehicle after the repairs are completed.
G. X has not looked at the vehicle so they do not have to pay the diminished value claim: Typically, we do inspect the vehicle but not always. It is X’s policy that if we can save our clients money we will. Since we do 100-200 appraisal a month we have a pretty good idea of which insurance company’s want a physical inspection, and there are only a few. If during the negotiations, the adjuster mentions the vehicle was not inspected have them put in writing that they will pay the listed diminished value amount in our appraisal once the vehicle has been inspected.
H. The insurance company states you need to file the diminished value claim with your insurance company: This is typically false. 99% of the time diminished value is excluded under the liability portion of your policy. The only exclusions maybe are under the UMPD portion of your policy or if you live in GA.
I. The adjuster continues to tell you information that you feel is false. If it sounds untrue it probably is.. Have your adjuster write down and or them email to you the information you feel is false. Typically, adjusters will not put in a writing a falsehood. If the information changes once you ask them to write it down you got your answer.
J. The adjuster keep on quoting case law stating they don’t have to pay third part diminished value: Have the adjuster put in writing the name and number of the law. Call your state Insurance Commissioner, their information is on our website X.com and ask them specifically about the law making sure the employee knows the claim is a third party claim. Once you have the correct information make sure you have the employee’s name and number and refer your adjuster to that specific person.
K. The Insurance Company does hire another appraiser and they come in very low: Ask the insurance company for a copy of that appraisal and forward the appraisal to X and we will help you find discrepancies in the appraisal and help you re- negotiate the DV settlement. Many times the other appraiser will use the 17C amount and X can help you with the negotiations.
L. The adjuster continues to give you a low ball/ nuisance settlement and they state they do not have the authority to increase the offer.. Ask them to give you the name and number of the person who does have the authority. Also, if they don’t want to give you their supervisors name and number you can look up the insurance company’s toll free number on their website. Once you call the toll free number, give them your claim number and ask for the adjusters supervisor number.
07-27-2007, 07:55 PM
#68
Mal28 -- That brought a smile to my face. Thanks. 
Unfortunately, today was the first day I had to miss work due to this incident. Last night and this morning I had such a bad headache that I was very dizzy. The dizziness persisted most of today, and now the doc has me loaded up on meds to control it. Still the headache persists. As does the neck pain.
Yesterday I did ask the insurance agent what it would take to declare the car a total loss. Her answer was that the cost to repair would have to exceed the value of the car. Given that my car is a launch car with 8,800 miles, I guess it would take quite a bad bit of damage for this to occur. Even with all the under-skin damage not visible in the photos, I guess they are deeming it more economically feasible to repair than replace.
As mentioned previously, my car is on a business lease through a company I own. My original intention was to buy it out at the end of the lease. With it's low miles and previously beautiful condition, I would have come out very nicely. I could have kept it and had myself a real nice car, or I could even have sold it, and stood a very good chance of making a buck or two. I don't have a copy of my lease in front of me, but I recall the buyout option having a very reasonable price.
Now, all things considered, I'll probably just turn in the car at the end of the lease, and walk away. It's a real bummer.
But more than anything, at this point, I just want to start feeling better. It's 5 days post-accident and I'm still feeling horrible. Considering what I've been through, maybe I need to rig a 5 point harnass and HANS device into the car for future driving.
Seriously -- Whenever something bad happens (certainly this qualifies) I look to learn from the experience. That's why I started this thread in the first place. The things I'm dealing with right now are, for the most part, things many of us have never thought much about. (At least I know that's the case with me.)
Again, thanks for your support and kind words. It's been really helpful as I work through this nightmare.
Unfortunately, today was the first day I had to miss work due to this incident. Last night and this morning I had such a bad headache that I was very dizzy. The dizziness persisted most of today, and now the doc has me loaded up on meds to control it. Still the headache persists. As does the neck pain.
Yesterday I did ask the insurance agent what it would take to declare the car a total loss. Her answer was that the cost to repair would have to exceed the value of the car. Given that my car is a launch car with 8,800 miles, I guess it would take quite a bad bit of damage for this to occur. Even with all the under-skin damage not visible in the photos, I guess they are deeming it more economically feasible to repair than replace.
As mentioned previously, my car is on a business lease through a company I own. My original intention was to buy it out at the end of the lease. With it's low miles and previously beautiful condition, I would have come out very nicely. I could have kept it and had myself a real nice car, or I could even have sold it, and stood a very good chance of making a buck or two. I don't have a copy of my lease in front of me, but I recall the buyout option having a very reasonable price.
Now, all things considered, I'll probably just turn in the car at the end of the lease, and walk away. It's a real bummer.
But more than anything, at this point, I just want to start feeling better. It's 5 days post-accident and I'm still feeling horrible. Considering what I've been through, maybe I need to rig a 5 point harnass and HANS device into the car for future driving.
Seriously -- Whenever something bad happens (certainly this qualifies) I look to learn from the experience. That's why I started this thread in the first place. The things I'm dealing with right now are, for the most part, things many of us have never thought much about. (At least I know that's the case with me.)
Again, thanks for your support and kind words. It's been really helpful as I work through this nightmare.
07-27-2007, 08:19 PM
#69
I wonder if you even have standing to file a DV claim on a leased car. How is that even possible if you don't own it? I know that you basically have a "call" option on the car but I doubt that any state law would grant you that privilege. I would think that it is the lessor who can file a DV claim in a situation like that. To file a DV claim under the assumption that 1) you would buy the car at lease end then 2) turn around and sell it and 3) take a loss because it was damaged seems like a stretch to me.
Any lawyers out there?
Any lawyers out there?
07-27-2007, 11:53 PM
#70
Instructor
Originally Posted by eilig
Unfortunately, today was the first day I had to miss work due to this incident. Last night and this morning I had such a bad headache that I was very dizzy. The dizziness persisted most of today, and now the doc has me loaded up on meds to control it. Still the headache persists. As does the neck pain.
Most importantly, avoid getting a second concussion right now-- that can be very serious (as has been seen in pro sports...).
Take it easy and don't get all worried...I'm sure you're fine!
J
07-28-2007, 10:30 AM
#72
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Originally Posted by boolala
Would still like to know if anybody, anywhere at any time has collected on a DV claim for a leased vehicle....
According to this
DV info
, there does seem to be DV claims available to lessees.
RB
07-28-2007, 10:44 AM
#73
Rennlist Member
This thread has gotten rather long and I haven't read the entire piece.
Here are my thoughts: If you don't want the car now, and I probably wouldn't. Ask the dealer for some salvage guys and take some bids for the car in its present state. Then add the money they would pay to fix the car (three estimates), then add the rest as deminition of value. You're back at whole. I did this with my SL500 and moved on to another car. It took three salvage bids and some negotiating, but I was happy.
Good luck.
Here are my thoughts: If you don't want the car now, and I probably wouldn't. Ask the dealer for some salvage guys and take some bids for the car in its present state. Then add the money they would pay to fix the car (three estimates), then add the rest as deminition of value. You're back at whole. I did this with my SL500 and moved on to another car. It took three salvage bids and some negotiating, but I was happy.
Good luck.
07-31-2007, 05:44 PM
#74
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I hope you are feeling better. Thought you might be able to use this article to your advantage:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/au...k_coverup.html
Interesting and kind of scary info when you consider what may have been overlooked in repaired cars and how it could effect how safe they are in the future.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/au...k_coverup.html
Interesting and kind of scary info when you consider what may have been overlooked in repaired cars and how it could effect how safe they are in the future.
08-01-2007, 03:55 AM
#75
Rennlist Member
Hope you're feeling better. The pics made me sick too...or just sad. As for the car. It will be fixed one way or another...primary concern should be your health. As a doc you probably have what is called post concussive syndrome....symptoms can last a few days to weeks but if they continue then you definately should make sure you follow up with your doc to make sure there are no lingering effects!
Best to live to drive a new or newly repaired 997 another day, eh?
Best of luck!
Rob
Best to live to drive a new or newly repaired 997 another day, eh?
Best of luck!
Rob
