Alan Smithee

I'm a die hard 911 fan, and don't care if the 911 becomes an 8-cylinder, either...but after, what, a decade of RMS issues with the 'new' flat-6, I certainly won't be buying a first production year.

I have a bigger issue with the sedan and SUV.

mdrums

What's the deal with the pedestrian injury concern...are there a lot of european's walking out in front of Porsche's?

Le Chef

It's european safety laws to give greater protection for all pedestrians. Porsche is lucky with the 987/997 in that there's no engine under the hood, otherwise you would see a raised hood line to give greater clearance over the engine.

Alan Smithee

I don't get it either. Seems like very low speed pedestrian impacts (let's face it...anything more than that, and it doesn't matter what hits you) would be a very small percentage of injury statistics in any country...doesn't seem like it should drive (no pun intended) automotive design. It would be cheaper to mandate helmets for pedestrians in the EU. Wouldn't that be funny.

nyca

the EU safety-crats have nothing better to do with their time (their US counterparts are just a few years behind them) then to issue more and more regulations. on one hand they issue requirements for better MPG and lower CO2/km emissions - then they issue regulations forcing more upright noses on cars for pedestrians, increasing the Cd and lowering mileage.

imagine what Ferrari is going to have to do to make something like the new 599 compliant with this nonsense.

Soulteacher

Just for clarification purposes: EU directive 2003/102/EG only defines maximum levels for the impact that would be absorbed by a pedestrian or a cyclist in the event of a collision with an automobile.

Bumpers do not necessarily have to be elevated or otherwise redesigned; the design used to adhere to the directive is up to the manufacturer as long as the maximum levels of pedestrian/cyclist impact-absorption are not exceeded. As I mentioned before, a lot of manufacturers are testing different materials as opposed to different designs.

After full implementation of the measures, the EU directive is expected to lead to a 50 percent decrease in pedestrian and cyclist fatalities by 2010 (down to 4,000 from currently 8,000 deaths a year), and to a 50 percent decrease in pedestrian and cyclist injuries (down to 150,000 from currently 300,000).

Over half of all pedestrian/cyclist fatalities are children under the age of 14 - traffic accidents are the leading cause of death for that age group.

The directive sounds reasonable to me. I'm not so sure about the MPG stuff.

mdrums

Thanks for the info on this euro pedestrian problem...didn't they learn to look both ways before crossing the street? Never new that many people over in europe get run over by cars. hummmm...

500

Couple of things:

1) Thanks for the great EU info, Soul Teacher.

2) I want a GT2!!! (Note to Porsche: Just cool it with the new rear lower vent stuff...the slats like on the GT3 would work just fine )

PAULSPEED

Hi,
I am amazed that no one talked about the cheese grate rear end. All
the guys at ferrari chat go to great lengths about the cheese grates
on different cars. I should send this link over
to them to see their response.
Paul

nyca

the new Mercedes C Class, has a higher Cd (.30) then the previous C Class (.26), because of this pedestrian safety requirement. Given that it uses the same engine lineup, and weighs roughly the same, the highway MPG will certainly be lower due to the increased Cd caused by these new regulations.

500

I just did in the post above yours in "Note to Porsche" they really do look tacky; perhaps it's still not a pic of a production ready car.

nyca

you can read some of the details on this here:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...40/ai_n6062880

its already stopped GM from being able to sell the Solstice in Europe.

"Sadly, we were not able to get (Solstice) in on time under the 2005 pedestrian protection legislation in Europe, which is just going to radically change the look of automobiles in Europe, post-2005. The next generation of European cars is going to look different," says Bob Lutz, GM vice chairman-product development.

Lutz expects European vehicle front ends to feature horizontal hoods and flat fascias, similar to the flat, upright look of the Chrysler Group's new Dodge Magnum and Chrysler 300."

The 2010 regulations are going to be really bad:

"if the second phase of the legislation, which is not yet finalized, is implemented, "then cars will change dramatically both in the way they look and the way they are designed.

"You're going to have to have six to 12 ins. (15 cm to 30 cm) of energy-absorbing foam or something that behaves like a deployable hood all over the front of the car. Unless you can magically shrink the engine, you're going to have much larger front ends, which will have a big effect on size and mass and fuel economy," adds Hadden. Even headlights will have to be designed differently"

Its utter madness, and it will come to the US eventually. As the article notes, lawsuits will claim the US carmakers are "deficient" in their designs because the euro-cars are "safer", and will sue on that basis in cases involving pedestrian fatalities.

Soulteacher

Great article, even though it's from 2004. Thanks for posting, I had tried to find something in English but did not succeed.

So, there we see it: "But instead of overhauling front-end designs, many auto makers are working with suppliers TRW Automotive, Autoliv, Siemens VDO Automotive AG and others to develop alternatives, such as so-called "active hoods," that use sensors to detect an impending collision with a pedestrian and then activate a spring or small airbag-like device to instantaneously raise the hood several inches to create the required crush space."

I think Porsche is at an immense advantage with the 911 because our engine is not in the front. Cool stuff.

Soulteacher

By the way, I agree that it will have huge implications, some of which are going to be of negative nature. It's kind of exciting, though, because of the rather strong positive impact it would have.

Compare that step to the Autobahn speed limit that some people want: even optimistically, such a speed limit is estimated to decrease traffic fatalities by less than 2.5 percent. Now we can decrease them by 50 (!) percent.

As a European, you are sort of used to having regulations all around you, many of which are rather questionable. Especially after 11+ years in the U.S. I have come to realize that a lot of European legislation is crap; so I'm happy the EU is finally doing something that will actually have an effect.

Ronnie

I would like to see a more noticeable difference between future 911 and Boxster / Cayman.

As for an 8 cylinder in future models… I don’t see why not. Didn’t the 911 originally have only 4 cylinders, and then what about always being air cooled… progress is progress. Larger displacement and more cylinders = more power, and new technologies and build methods = lighter engines.