Jakeman

Mike,

It's Paul Miller in Parsippany. I've had a fairly typical buying experience so far, much as it was at BMW, Mercedes, or Mazda. ...and my only contact has been with a fairly friendly salesperson, who I met with twice and talked on the phone with a lot while the car was being built and shipped. Obviously the BS fees reflect both the dealership's approach and the salesperson, who didn't immediately drop the fees. I'm not disgusted, but will walk away if the charges aren't dropped because I don't want to pay for them.

I visited a couple of times last year, first to drive a CPO 2002 996 (Guards Red with the Aero kit). Gorgeous, but overpriced. They were willing to drop the price only $500 and it sat for ages. Then I went back to drive a Cayman S to compare to the 997. I liked it, but my wife insisted on a back seat (hurray for wives). She also liked that the 997 had side airbags. They had a nonCPO 2006 with 2K miles. I offered $66K; they wanted $68K. They dropped the price $500 and wouldn't go lower. It sold after 2 weeks in November.

So, given the ease in getting a bargain at Paul Miller, I shopped out of state to order a lean C2 with few options. This gave me a baseline of what a reasonable price was. I then went back to the salesman and haggled out a percentage that seemed fair, given that the dealership is closest to my home and that they only give a loaner to their customers. I was prepared to order out of state if we couldn't find a middle ground.

Overall, it was not too pressured a situation, but for 6.25% over invoice, you'd think that hidden charges wouldn't pop up.

I really appreciate everyone providing a reality check on this matter! It's really awesome.

More tomorrow...

Jakeman

fast1

Car invoices have been readily available for many years. You can get the invoice price of any option as well as the base vehicle at Edmunds, Kelley Blue Book, N.A.D.A. and probably a lot of other places. And they are 100% accurate.

Absolutely true. I would suggest that a lot depends upon the relationship that you have with your Dealer. Over the years I have bought five cars from the same Porsche/Audi Dealer. They all know me at the Dealership, and know that I'm a no nosense buyer. I typically buy cars at an agreed upon percentage markup over invoice, and have never had problems with Dealer add ons. The only extra that I pay is for taxes and tags.

$6 tire tax, and $169 for doc fees.
When we went over the final numbers I noticed an additional $475 in the invoice price. The salesman said that this is $345 dealer prep and $125 for detailing.

I'm surprised that they didn't hit you for additional fees for their advertising costs, heating ,air conditioning ,etc. Personally I would never pay the extra charges because they were not agreed upon up-front by you. As others have said they are hoping that you are so eager to buy the car that you will overlook these nuisance charges.

MyEmily

Play harball and walk. If you really want the car, go 50/50. If you really wanted badly like there is no tommorrow, take the hit. Consider it as a Porsche membership or ask for a freebie, ie car cover, key chain, lincense frame. Lessen the pain... IMO, Dealer prep are bogus. just another way to get a few bucks off the consumer.

Pugnacious

Your hands-on experiences in the automobile business are different from mine. As a 30 year owner/operator of another high line German car I never once saw the invoice the customer had match the actual invoice I received from the distributor.

Whereas the invoice prices offered by Edmunds, Kelley Blue Book and N.A.D.A. were accurate concerning the base price and options it did not include regional charges like area DAG fees (Dealer Ad Group), regional training frees and VSAT usage fees to name a few that were included in the wholesale price of the car.

With the possible exception of the DAG fee which went to pay for the local dealers group advertising many of the extra fees charged had absolutely nothing to do with the car but they were none the less included in the wholesale price of the car charged the dealer.

texas911

It's BS. They make a ton of money already and they cheese it by nickling and diming you. Dealers will be dealers.

fast1

About a year ago I went to my local BMW Dealer to check out the new Z4M roadster. As I was walking into the showroom there ws a guy walking out the door screaming at his salesman. He was yelling out that he was fed up with the fu**ing add on charges, and he wouldn't buy another car there regardless of price. When you are talking about $70K+ cars, it's hard to believe that Dealers are willing to jeopardize a sale for an extra couple hundred dollars.

Bum

Greed has NO limits!

Jakeman

A 10 minute discussion ensued, and the salesman decided to eat the cost on his side. Hooray! He said that he would even charge an other dealership these costs if doing a swap...oyy.

Jakeman

MyEmily

LOL!!!! Always the same tactic.... For 4 bills difference and lose a good commission ??? Remember Fargo, the movie???

Rich.

what a shocker. silly sales ppl.

Jakeman

Here's the long story, if anyone cares: The salesperson called and said they'd be willing to cover the $345 prep charge, asking that I pay for the $125 detailing. I said I wouldn't. He said earnestly that he was shocked that I would have a problem paying for this. He said that the pro forma invoice isn't the real price anyway, and that there are other costs that I never see (e.g., computer fees). So, I said that he is being unfair. First, it can't cost so much to detail a new car. Second, he was only looking at costs one-way. He would never give me a kickback, if I were buying a car that led to his getting a bonus, or added allocation of a hot car (e.g., a 997TT). He admitted this was true.

So, I said the whole reason why I used the manufacturer's invoice is that it's a number we all can agree on; it's on the web, and not disputable. He said that he considered invoice to mean something else. I said if you ask 20 folks what invoice means, they'll agree with me. After about 10 minutes of this dance, I said, what are you going to do? He paused and said, I'll eat the charges because I want your loyalty. To make him feel better, I reiterated that I bought the car from his dealership because I liked working with him (except for this week), and I like the place in general. I tried to be as conciliatory as possible; I don't want him to begrudge me later when I need his support over some warranty hassle in the future.

I really don't think that this was such an unusual situation, and I am not thinking this is the last time I ever will deal with these folks. Still, I would have walked away because our agreement was being breached. It helped a lot that everyone could chime in and provide an opinion.

Thanks again to all of you for your help! Rennlist is super.

Jakeman

DJ23

Jakeman, I'm glad things worked out. You may want to consider staying with the dealership, maybe just a different sales person. In any event happy that the Rennlisters came to the rescue with great advice.

Jay

fast1

So, I said the whole reason why I used the manufacturer's invoice is that it's a number we all can agree on; it's on the web, and not disputable. He said that he considered invoice to mean something else. I said if you ask 20 folks what invoice means, they'll agree with me.

Since you negotiated a deal over invoice you are on solid ground. Now if he said x dollars over Dealer's cost, you have a different scenario. Congratulations on sticking to the deal.

jhbrennan

I would imagine that sales reps and the finance manager probably get a higher commission on "add-ons" and that's why we get more pressure on these items.

Nice job on taking the high ground!

Bob in NY

Did you deal with Nick? I worked with him in my search for a 997. He was a good guy but I found the right car in Ct. I always felt they were the "high priced" dealer. My battery went dead in my 996 and I had to take the car to them and they got me for nearly $200 for a new battery.