Seriously considering an 06 C4S...
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
From: UK
Many on this board will know far better than I do, but I would check out the consequences of having the power kit. I was interested in this at one point but I was put off by a few issues
i. the price is huge
ii. the throttle mapping is different to standard (all the extra power seems to be at the top end)
iii. the ride is harder than standard
My conclusion was that if I was going to be tracking / racing it would be worth having but as a daily drive it would detract from my enjoyment of the car. I must point out that I never got to drive a car with a power kit so all assumptions are based on what I've read on this board or advice I got from the dealer.
Enjoy making your decision.
i. the price is huge
ii. the throttle mapping is different to standard (all the extra power seems to be at the top end)
iii. the ride is harder than standard
My conclusion was that if I was going to be tracking / racing it would be worth having but as a daily drive it would detract from my enjoyment of the car. I must point out that I never got to drive a car with a power kit so all assumptions are based on what I've read on this board or advice I got from the dealer.
Enjoy making your decision.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,282
Likes: 5
From: Athens, Greece
Let me add my $0.02 here, or should I say my 2 eurocents (more expensive!)
1. I much agree with the snow shovel comment. You cannot have a car with an aero kit, unless they plough your hill daily... Or else YOU will be doing it daily, and it will be in a very expensive machine
2. You are spending top $ on a slightly used car, and getting a good 25% discount, but still its top $. You should have a car that maximises practicality in your situation with use. Search a bit more, you may find other options, which are closer to what you need, not necessarily waht you want!
Or, do what most of us do, and go all out emotional and buy that gorgeous car you found (but dont justify it by saying that you are getting it so that you can also use it in the snow..! becuase you wont!)
3. I agree with the post about the Tip tranny, I bought mine a TIP as well, and yes the wife has driven it, albeit once (in the 1 month of ownership - thats good enough). But it grows on you...
3. Defiitely get a C4S, although note the following. The C4S is a 4 wheel drive that effectively is a 2 wheel drive that transfers power to the front wheels when needed. This transaltes to: its not an Audi 4 wheel drive. Its a 4 wheel drive that you can do wheelies in, very easy. It behaves like a rear wheel drive effectively that can actually be saved if need be with some power in the front wheels. I hope this makes sense, its hard to explain, but I think what I am trying to say is if you drive a 4 wheel drive Audi (effectively based on front wheel drive), this feels different. Good different, not bad different.
Good luck and keep us posted. And since you are set in buying a P-car, pay that membership and post pics and links to your hearts content!
1. I much agree with the snow shovel comment. You cannot have a car with an aero kit, unless they plough your hill daily... Or else YOU will be doing it daily, and it will be in a very expensive machine
2. You are spending top $ on a slightly used car, and getting a good 25% discount, but still its top $. You should have a car that maximises practicality in your situation with use. Search a bit more, you may find other options, which are closer to what you need, not necessarily waht you want!
Or, do what most of us do, and go all out emotional and buy that gorgeous car you found (but dont justify it by saying that you are getting it so that you can also use it in the snow..! becuase you wont!)
3. I agree with the post about the Tip tranny, I bought mine a TIP as well, and yes the wife has driven it, albeit once (in the 1 month of ownership - thats good enough). But it grows on you...
3. Defiitely get a C4S, although note the following. The C4S is a 4 wheel drive that effectively is a 2 wheel drive that transfers power to the front wheels when needed. This transaltes to: its not an Audi 4 wheel drive. Its a 4 wheel drive that you can do wheelies in, very easy. It behaves like a rear wheel drive effectively that can actually be saved if need be with some power in the front wheels. I hope this makes sense, its hard to explain, but I think what I am trying to say is if you drive a 4 wheel drive Audi (effectively based on front wheel drive), this feels different. Good different, not bad different.
Good luck and keep us posted. And since you are set in buying a P-car, pay that membership and post pics and links to your hearts content!
Pro
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 591
Likes: 200
From: NY
I just got an 06 C4S Aero + X51 Power kit. Sport seats, sports shift, painted console, seat backs, and interior trim. Bose, Nav, altogether sticker of 129k. Car had 50 miles - dispute between bank and fictitiously named owner - which took 10 months to resolve. Bought from Porsche dealer w/ CPO until 12/2011. $102k. Car was VERY close to exactly what I would have ordered if cost no object. Traded in 05 Carrera S w/ 13k miles and EVERY option, incl PCCB. New car rides similarly to old, sports exhaust (incl in X51) is terrific. REVO ECU can increase hp to 410 on X51 engine - used by Farnbacher Loles on their Cayman 3.8 X51. Car now has 850 miles. LOVE it.
Thread Starter
Track Day
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Redmond, WA & San Francisco, CA
Just for the sake of clarity, this IS the exact car I would order new (except for the gauges and seatbelts).
The whole AWD / winter practicality thing is a total ruse. Of course I won't be driving it through snow drifts. Heck, we don't even have snow drifts in Seattle...it rarely snows and when it does it is a couple of inches. I would probably only drive it in nasty weather in an emergency anyway.
On the other hand, I do like the idea of AWD because the streets are frequently wet and I wouldn't want to put my new 100 grand toy into a ditch because of a combination of poor traction and inexperience with the driving dymamics of a rear engined vehicle.
I am pretty sure I am going to go see the car today. I'll report back.
The whole AWD / winter practicality thing is a total ruse. Of course I won't be driving it through snow drifts. Heck, we don't even have snow drifts in Seattle...it rarely snows and when it does it is a couple of inches. I would probably only drive it in nasty weather in an emergency anyway.
On the other hand, I do like the idea of AWD because the streets are frequently wet and I wouldn't want to put my new 100 grand toy into a ditch because of a combination of poor traction and inexperience with the driving dymamics of a rear engined vehicle.
I am pretty sure I am going to go see the car today. I'll report back.
Thread Starter
Track Day
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Redmond, WA & San Francisco, CA
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 0
From: Chicago area, IL USA
Snow is not a problem...
...as long as you don't have the AeroKit front spoiler. If you do, you'll need to stay in the garage. The stock nose is way low as delivered; the AeroKit is totally unusable in the snow. As someone put it above, "...a very expensive snowplow..." or the like.
I put a set of 19' takeoffs with Pirelli 240 SnowSports on the C4S simply to give me a winter-capable compound for cold, dry days - then my old Bimmer decided to give up the ghost in the sub-zero temps we've been experiencing...
So the C4S is getting dirty. The car is a total gas to drive in this weather; however - I do worry about everyone else on the road as they are slipping and sliding around... that should be your only concern, though.
The viscous interaxle does not provide the torque split of an Audi with Quattro at launch, so you'll need to be at least a bit careful on takeoff. Once you're rolling, the Porsche system does quite well. Just don't forget two things:
1.) On glare ice, nobody can stop;
2.) On dry pavement or on snow, the guy behind you will not be able to stop as fast as you can.
Both of those situations are problematic. Again, other drivers are my only concern with taking the 911 out in the winter.
Good luck!
-don
I put a set of 19' takeoffs with Pirelli 240 SnowSports on the C4S simply to give me a winter-capable compound for cold, dry days - then my old Bimmer decided to give up the ghost in the sub-zero temps we've been experiencing...
So the C4S is getting dirty. The car is a total gas to drive in this weather; however - I do worry about everyone else on the road as they are slipping and sliding around... that should be your only concern, though.
The viscous interaxle does not provide the torque split of an Audi with Quattro at launch, so you'll need to be at least a bit careful on takeoff. Once you're rolling, the Porsche system does quite well. Just don't forget two things:
1.) On glare ice, nobody can stop;
2.) On dry pavement or on snow, the guy behind you will not be able to stop as fast as you can.
Both of those situations are problematic. Again, other drivers are my only concern with taking the 911 out in the winter.
Good luck!
-don
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,564
Likes: 2
From: Chicago
Autocar agree. They tested a bunch of cars in the snow and came to the conclusion that the C4S was "all the car you would ever need".
Check on the Autocar website and you should find the article.
Check on the Autocar website and you should find the article.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 871
Likes: 313
From: East Texas
Originally Posted by devon7
Many on this board will know far better than I do, but I would check out the consequences of having the power kit. I was interested in this at one point but I was put off by a few issues
i. the price is huge
ii. the throttle mapping is different to standard (all the extra power seems to be at the top end)
iii. the ride is harder than standard
My conclusion was that if I was going to be tracking / racing it would be worth having but as a daily drive it would detract from my enjoyment of the car. I must point out that I never got to drive a car with a power kit so all assumptions are based on what I've read on this board or advice I got from the dealer.
Enjoy making your decision.
i. the price is huge
ii. the throttle mapping is different to standard (all the extra power seems to be at the top end)
iii. the ride is harder than standard
My conclusion was that if I was going to be tracking / racing it would be worth having but as a daily drive it would detract from my enjoyment of the car. I must point out that I never got to drive a car with a power kit so all assumptions are based on what I've read on this board or advice I got from the dealer.
Enjoy making your decision.
I used to own a 996 Turbo, and my X51 997 Club Coupe actually launches faster (due to no turbo lag) and is roughly comparable (from a seat of the pants persective) to the Turbo, 0-60. The only bad thing you can say about X51 in my opinion is it's price. It is an excellent package--the engine sounds glorious and is free reving. Track down a copy of Excellence Magazine which did a cover story on the Club Coupe last year--it is a balanced review.
The throttle mapping is the same as 997 S with Sports Chrono, which is selectable--choose normal mode if you don't like the more aggressive throttle map. And in my opinion, Sports Chrono is worth having on any 997.
As far as ride, again, it is no different than a 997 with the same suspension, which is PASM. There are no suspension tweaks with X51. Engine, intake, headers, and Porsche Sport Exhaust.
Lots of misinformation in your post. Sorry, but it's true.
Pro
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 695
Likes: 1
From: CO. USA.
If that is exactly what you would order new, then it is worth doing your homework on this car. Looks to be a decent price if you add the Powerkit/aerokit. But I would do your homework. I can attest that it is very tempting not obey the break-in period rules 
I can say that you would probably really appreciate the AWD in the rain up there, I got to test that aspect in Europe on some switchbacks, nice.
Good luck!
I can say that you would probably really appreciate the AWD in the rain up there, I got to test that aspect in Europe on some switchbacks, nice.
Good luck!
Originally Posted by RedmondLonghorn
Just for the sake of clarity, this IS the exact car I would order new (except for the gauges and seatbelts).
The whole AWD / winter practicality thing is a total ruse. Of course I won't be driving it through snow drifts. Heck, we don't even have snow drifts in Seattle...it rarely snows and when it does it is a couple of inches. I would probably only drive it in nasty weather in an emergency anyway.
On the other hand, I do like the idea of AWD because the streets are frequently wet and I wouldn't want to put my new 100 grand toy into a ditch because of a combination of poor traction and inexperience with the driving dymamics of a rear engined vehicle.
I am pretty sure I am going to go see the car today. I'll report back.
The whole AWD / winter practicality thing is a total ruse. Of course I won't be driving it through snow drifts. Heck, we don't even have snow drifts in Seattle...it rarely snows and when it does it is a couple of inches. I would probably only drive it in nasty weather in an emergency anyway.
On the other hand, I do like the idea of AWD because the streets are frequently wet and I wouldn't want to put my new 100 grand toy into a ditch because of a combination of poor traction and inexperience with the driving dymamics of a rear engined vehicle.
I am pretty sure I am going to go see the car today. I'll report back.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 871
Likes: 313
From: East Texas
Originally Posted by RedmondLonghorn
Just for the sake of clarity, this IS the exact car I would order new (except for the gauges and seatbelts).
The whole AWD / winter practicality thing is a total ruse. Of course I won't be driving it through snow drifts. Heck, we don't even have snow drifts in Seattle...it rarely snows and when it does it is a couple of inches. I would probably only drive it in nasty weather in an emergency anyway.
On the other hand, I do like the idea of AWD because the streets are frequently wet and I wouldn't want to put my new 100 grand toy into a ditch because of a combination of poor traction and inexperience with the driving dymamics of a rear engined vehicle.
I am pretty sure I am going to go see the car today. I'll report back.
The whole AWD / winter practicality thing is a total ruse. Of course I won't be driving it through snow drifts. Heck, we don't even have snow drifts in Seattle...it rarely snows and when it does it is a couple of inches. I would probably only drive it in nasty weather in an emergency anyway.
On the other hand, I do like the idea of AWD because the streets are frequently wet and I wouldn't want to put my new 100 grand toy into a ditch because of a combination of poor traction and inexperience with the driving dymamics of a rear engined vehicle.
I am pretty sure I am going to go see the car today. I'll report back.
I've had two wheel drive and AWD Carreras as well as the Turbo, and these days I prefer the two-wheel drive.
But this sounds like the car for you, and I don't see how you can ever go wrong with that.
Thread Starter
Track Day
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Redmond, WA & San Francisco, CA
Okay. Lots of good information and advice here.
On the topic of "doing my homework", what are the best practices in this regard?
I will ask for a DME report.
--What will it look like?
--Will I be able to interpret it without the Rosetta Stone or a Porsche mechanic?
I will check Carfax, though I know better than to rely on that information.
I will confirm that it has all of the options that it is supposed to have (X-51), either through the helpful guy on this thread or by calling Porsche directly.
I am already pretty sure this is a good price on the vehicle, just based on browsing the internet a bit. The car really would cost in the $130K neighborhood new, so a discount of about 23% on a car that is only one model year back, has 3K miles and is in California is pretty attractive.
What am I missing? Other than seeing it in person and driving it, obviously.
On the topic of "doing my homework", what are the best practices in this regard?
I will ask for a DME report.
--What will it look like?
--Will I be able to interpret it without the Rosetta Stone or a Porsche mechanic?
I will check Carfax, though I know better than to rely on that information.
I will confirm that it has all of the options that it is supposed to have (X-51), either through the helpful guy on this thread or by calling Porsche directly.
I am already pretty sure this is a good price on the vehicle, just based on browsing the internet a bit. The car really would cost in the $130K neighborhood new, so a discount of about 23% on a car that is only one model year back, has 3K miles and is in California is pretty attractive.
What am I missing? Other than seeing it in person and driving it, obviously.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 871
Likes: 313
From: East Texas
Originally Posted by RedmondLonghorn
Okay. Lots of good information and advice here.
On the topic of "doing my homework", what are the best practices in this regard?
I will ask for a DME report.
--What will it look like?
--Will I be able to interpret it without the Rosetta Stone or a Porsche mechanic?
I will check Carfax, though I know better than to rely on that information.
I will confirm that it has all of the options that it is supposed to have (X-51), either through the helpful guy on this thread or by calling Porsche directly.
I am already pretty sure this is a good price on the vehicle, just based on browsing the internet a bit. The car really would cost in the $130K neighborhood new, so a discount of about 23% on a car that is only one model year back, has 3K miles and is in California is pretty attractive.
What am I missing? Other than seeing it in person and driving it, obviously.
On the topic of "doing my homework", what are the best practices in this regard?
I will ask for a DME report.
--What will it look like?
--Will I be able to interpret it without the Rosetta Stone or a Porsche mechanic?
I will check Carfax, though I know better than to rely on that information.
I will confirm that it has all of the options that it is supposed to have (X-51), either through the helpful guy on this thread or by calling Porsche directly.
I am already pretty sure this is a good price on the vehicle, just based on browsing the internet a bit. The car really would cost in the $130K neighborhood new, so a discount of about 23% on a car that is only one model year back, has 3K miles and is in California is pretty attractive.
What am I missing? Other than seeing it in person and driving it, obviously.
Usually for the options, most preowned Porsches will have the original window sticker or a copy of it--powerkit is very easiy to spot. Pop the engine cover and look--if you see a carbon fiber air box with two inlets, that's X51. There's also an options sticker under the front trunk lid--if it's missing that may mean the car had some collision work done that required a new hood; although I've read of a few reports where dealers remove it, they shouldn't.
For me, my checklist would include making sure the car comes with three keys (two remote keys and the plastic wallet keys), all it's books/owner's manuals, and whatever service records the dealer has on it, a close visual inspection, a good test drive and no stories- paintwork/accidents/prior owner's complaints (I would want to know why the car was traded in).
Most things will be covered by warranty--a clutch or brakes won't. That said, I wouldn't buy if it had anything that needs fixing unless it's fixed before I own it. Squeaks, rattles, whatever.
Carfax is notoriously inaccurate, so don't be lulled into any false sense of security by a "clean report".