Does anyone have any experience with the Brandywine Performance Power package? I would be interested in your experiences and comments. I am seriously considering the package for my my 2006 997S. The package, which costs around $6,500 and promises to push HP to 400 and increase torque by between 30 and 35 ft lbs, comprises AWE-tuning headers, AWE-tuning high flow cats, AWE-tuning mufflers, evolution motorsports vflow intake system and a GIAC performance software upgrade. Brandywine have always treated me very well and my question is addressed to the upgrade and its effectiveness and durability.

 

get a money back gaurantee and do before and after dynos...my experience - NO WAY will you add that much

 

Even before this post I was thinking the same thing - that with off the shelf products and leaving the internals alone you could push 400 hp. X51 gets you from 355 to 381 and some of that is the headers. As I did my research I found the exhaust is pretty much from the 996, though the output and potential output are greater in the 997S version of the 3.8. The restriction point is the exhaust. So, the aftermarket guys appear to have opened up the headers, cats, and exhaust to take advantage of that. Of course now I can't find the article online that describes in detail the sizes of the tubing, how these are leftovers from the 996, etc. You might say "if that was possible, then why didn't Porsche do it" and the answer is they were re-using old 996 parts, saving money, and were satisfied that 355 HP was enough. By the way, they did do it with the X51. I'm guessing a big part of why the X51 is so expensive is they were trying to get repaid over a few sales for the R&D and start-up to make the X51 header. So why doesn't Porsche do something with exhaust? Off the shelf and they need to keep it civil. But aftermarket can lighten it and the cost / benefit is that it's louder, but it's lighter and less restrictive. If you can get the air in and out then you can burn more fuel and make more HP.

I know you can't just take 15hp from 1 item and add it to 15 from the other - it doesn't work that way. There is a cumulative net positive from all of the critical parts working together. I think if you did headers and exhaust, but left the oem cats in the middle, you'd restrict your overall gain. Same with if you did say just the exhaust. But if you go with the series and open up the whole flow out of the engine, then I think you get the maximum "bump". AWE shows dyno sheets and claims in writing 28-39 HP and 28-31 TQ from their headers / cats / exhaust and I believe them. That alone gets you to 383-394 on the HP side before considering any intake or software.

I'm not saying they can substantiate 400, but just from looking at all of the tuners' dyno sheets and their written claims, I think you have to have some faith that they all aren't making this up. I'm typically a skeptic, but I understand the logic of this and experienced it with my M3.

 

Sounds like Evolution Motorsport's stage 4 package....

http://evoms.com/marketplace/ViewPro...D6F91B7FDEF%7D

As I mentioned in another thread, a friend installed this package on his S and it's noticably quicker than my stock S. It was too loud for him though, so re re-installed the factory mufflers but first had the bi-pass pipe installed (think PSE).
It's still loud and has a wonderful sound when he's on it....

 

Evo does say 40 HP and 40 TQ, so that would get you to 395... I suppose what it's going to take is somebody buying the system, running the dyno, putting everything on, driving the car to make sure everything is adapted, and then replicating the test conditions on the dyno for a "post" reading. My guess is that's what all of the tuners do and that's how Evo claims 40/40. AWE claims 383-394 just with their stuff.

 

how does porsche measure hp? dont they just dyno the engine? if so and if it produces 355hp - how can adding headers or exhaust or anyting else take the hp higher? doesnt the engine produce what it produces?

 

It doesn't work that way. Read my post above. It has much to do with fuel and air burning. The more fuel and higher density cold air you can burn, the more power you make. It's similar to taking a 997S engine at 355 and adding a supercharger (just pushing more cold air into the engine) and you get 100 more HP. Then the pipes have much to do with the power. If you put in a restriction, then less air can get "out". Lots of cold air in, burn, and if you have little ability to get hot air out, then the system gets "backed up".

So, with the 997S we have "old" piping on the way out from the 996. More air comes in, they've modified the engine internally to be able to make more power, but they didn't "open up" the way out. So that's what the tuners do - they make the tubes "larger" on the headers, cats, and exhaust. Then they may take some "stuffing" out of the exhaust to save weight and reduce restriction. So more hot gas can escape.

Added: I just found the info on the OEM stuff at SharkWerks.

A stock 997S with it's 3.8 L engine of 355Hp has 55mm primairy exhaust tubes which is the same size of tubes as the older 996 3.4 L engine with 300 hp. To cope with the additional airflow of the larger 997S engine , Europipe's sport exhaust system uses a combination of 60.3mm and 63.5mm primary tubes. (2 3/8 inch and 2 1/2 inch)

The stock 997S headers have 42mm tubes. Both the 997S X51 and 996 GT3 headers have 48mm tubes. Europipe has built and tested several equal length headers in 45mm , 48mm and 50mm tube sizes. Eventually the OEM X51 headers turned out to equally good but without having the inevitable ground clearance issues.

 

X-51 is alot more than just simple exhaust modification - an add-on for anyone who orders the "Sport Exhaust" option - which on the standard 3.8 engine gives you no more power.

The X-51 package is intake, tuners, lots of internal parts, etc...

Do a search on Rennlist - we have spoken about this in detail in the past...

 

No doubt and I wasn't trying to say X51 was only intake, software, headers, cats, and exhaust. I was saying those are parts of the whole that gets you more power. Here's a summary I found of the whole X51 that relates to power creation:

Optimized cylinder-head
Air filter box in carbon for better look
Modified exhaust system
Sports exhaust
New electronics

 

Oops.....

Please take no offense

Here - have a drink on me

I too agree that for the money of an X-51 package one could get new intake, exhaust (header, cat, mufflers) and a chip that requires 93 octane fuel all the time and be pretty darn close to 400hp.

My question is - would that 400hp be in a peak or smooth power curve and would you loose some torque in the process.

I think one needs to tear into the engine to get and maintain that useable power.

 

Please, I wasn't taking any offense - just pointing out to the casual observer that there were really 2 parts to the X51 and the headers, cats, and exhaust were one part that is fairly easy for those of us that did not order X51 to enjoy some of the benefits.

If you look at the Dyno runs of the before and after for the header/cat/exhaust at AWE and Fabspeed I think you'll see comparable torque benefits. If I remember correctly, there were a few points in the low RPM range where the gain wasn't significant, but perhaps from 4k to redline there really was more.

 

There was a huge debate over whether these bolt-ons + flash would add that much power. There were several folks that had similar setups and claimed ZERO power gain.

I dyno'ed my car stock (310whp/265wtq) which puts it right around Porsche's claims at the crank (363hp/310tq). If I could find a vendor that will give me a money-back guarantee on the power claims, then I'd go for it. I seriously considered the Champion F77 kit - I still might, but only with that money-back guarantee caveat.

 

I am not sure what the HP and Tq is with the kit, as I have nothing to compare to (car was modified when I bought it). I am sure that there is an increase in power, but I have not dyno'd it and I could care less about what the numbers are as the car is fast!

I can say that the car sounds amazing, it is loud (as jrgordonsenior had said) but not too loud for liking.

My suggestion to you is to ask for local references from your dealer and ask the owners what they think and perhaps go for a ride.

 

Hey Chris..alot of this could be the fact the car had software..software can also screw things up as well as helping. That's why its so important to do a after install dyno without software to see where your A/F ratios are. A lot of software actually can over compensate for the improved airflow and the cars will run pig rich. My experience with this is with the E46 M3 not the Pcars, but I've seen it with different makes as well. That's why I don't like generic software...each car can be a little different. I have seen software on one car make 2rwhp while on another car (identical setups) make 10rwhp, and some even lose hp. I do believe the exhaust mods will make hp..on the E46 M3 the car makes already out of the box 100hp/litre, even better than the 997S, however my SS headers/race cats/ Borla muffler made 20rwhp more than when stock to boost my hp from 282-302rwhp without software. I was running a tad lean on top, so I got a race shark from turners tuned for headers and such. Unfortunately I never dyno'd in this configuration, but the car felt smoother not really faster after the software.

Dave

 

You have to remember hp and tq are relative to each other..more than likely if you are making more hp you are also making more tq, but maybe at a somewhat higher rpm. With variable valve timing alot of this has been cured, but remember, why would you care if the car loses some tq below 3500rpm?? How often are you below that rpm? Probably not much, also under WOT shift conditions the car will be making more tq and hp at the shift points.

I tell you what would be nice on the 997S...4.10 gearing and 7500rpm redline. This combo along with the exhaust mods sounds like a winner.

Dave