998: Evolution or Revolution?
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by blk on blk
Well my car rattles so much someone the other day asked me if Porsche was outsourcing their interior assemble to Korea. That is the essence of my rant on umgrading the interior construction. I have already taken it in 6 times for eexcessive rattles. they fix it for a day then they come back usually worse than before. This should not be the case for an $80K car.
I wish 998 have:
1. SMG
2. Much better build quality
3. More power (hopefully +400 hps)
4. Less weight (hopefully 1300 Kgs)
5. More rigidity
and lastly louder exhaust sound...
Racer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 350
Likes: 1
From: Huntingdon Valley, PA
Almost everyone mentioned improvement in interior. I also have not a single rattle or noise in the interior. Moreover I think it is very ergonomic, comfortable(seats are amazing) , buttons feel great(homelink could work faster). Other than this, I am very happy. Can you provide examples of what you would like to be improved as far as interior goes?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by ds2k1
1. More power - base C2 should have 350 or more, C2S should have 380-400.
2. Better fit and finish in the interior - squeaks and rattles should be the exception, not the norm.
3. Go on a diet - 3K pounds or even a little less would be nice. Weight is the sports car's enemy.
4. Better gadget list - no satellite radio or MP3 adapter? Ridiculous. These ARE Germans, right?
5. Invest in the dealer network - too many people have terrible interactions with their dealerships. Going to a Porsche dealership should never, ever be worse than visiting a Lexus dealership.
6. Less electronic interference - I agree that Porsche must continue to fight the urge to load their car with electronic nanny-gadgets. I don't want anything more boosting my steering, brakes or otherwise. It's friggin' perfect, leave that stuff alone. Used to love Bimmers, now they're appliances.
Think that's my short list.
2. Better fit and finish in the interior - squeaks and rattles should be the exception, not the norm.
3. Go on a diet - 3K pounds or even a little less would be nice. Weight is the sports car's enemy.
4. Better gadget list - no satellite radio or MP3 adapter? Ridiculous. These ARE Germans, right?
5. Invest in the dealer network - too many people have terrible interactions with their dealerships. Going to a Porsche dealership should never, ever be worse than visiting a Lexus dealership.
6. Less electronic interference - I agree that Porsche must continue to fight the urge to load their car with electronic nanny-gadgets. I don't want anything more boosting my steering, brakes or otherwise. It's friggin' perfect, leave that stuff alone. Used to love Bimmers, now they're appliances.
Think that's my short list.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,208
Likes: 2
Depends on how you look at it. Was the change from the 901 to the 964 an evolution or revolution? The 964 to the 993? The 993 to the 996? The 996 to the 997?
Although the 964 looked like the 901 before it, it was 85% new. It had a whole new chassis, suspension, brakes, steering, engine and transmission. What was carried over, was where you could see it: some of the glass, mirrors, door skins, fenders and trunk lid to name a few.
The 993, despite looking new, was only 15% different from the 964 before. The transmission was new,but the engine was only revised. It was not a new chassis, but a modified 964 chassis.
The 996 following was all new: new chassis, engine, transmission, brakes. There are very few minor pieces shared with earlier generations.
The 997 is like the change from the 964 to the 993. It is a revised 996 chassis with a carryover engine and brakes. Despite a new dash and door panels, the rear seats carryover as well as the glass. Even the suspension was almost carryover with minor revisions increasing the track.
Expect the 998 change to be like the 996 change: all new chassis, suspension and engine (Porsche has already announced this). Don't know if the brakes or transmission will be carryover or new. To me, I would consider the 964, 996 and 998 to be revolution due to each being almost all new while the 993, 997 and the forthcoming 999 will be evolutions of existing designs.
Although the 964 looked like the 901 before it, it was 85% new. It had a whole new chassis, suspension, brakes, steering, engine and transmission. What was carried over, was where you could see it: some of the glass, mirrors, door skins, fenders and trunk lid to name a few.
The 993, despite looking new, was only 15% different from the 964 before. The transmission was new,but the engine was only revised. It was not a new chassis, but a modified 964 chassis.
The 996 following was all new: new chassis, engine, transmission, brakes. There are very few minor pieces shared with earlier generations.
The 997 is like the change from the 964 to the 993. It is a revised 996 chassis with a carryover engine and brakes. Despite a new dash and door panels, the rear seats carryover as well as the glass. Even the suspension was almost carryover with minor revisions increasing the track.
Expect the 998 change to be like the 996 change: all new chassis, suspension and engine (Porsche has already announced this). Don't know if the brakes or transmission will be carryover or new. To me, I would consider the 964, 996 and 998 to be revolution due to each being almost all new while the 993, 997 and the forthcoming 999 will be evolutions of existing designs.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,505
Likes: 10
From: Houston, TEXAS!
Originally Posted by getoutofmyporsche
Ummm..(as a Korean), I would recommend to test drive a Hyundai or Kia these days. Their interior may be more plasticky than Porsche's but I can definitely say they have less rattle (and almost little rattle) than Porsche.
I wish 998 have:
1. SMG
2. Much better build quality
3. More power (hopefully +400 hps)
4. Less weight (hopefully 1300 Kgs)
5. More rigidity
and lastly louder exhaust sound...
I wish 998 have:
1. SMG
2. Much better build quality
3. More power (hopefully +400 hps)
4. Less weight (hopefully 1300 Kgs)
5. More rigidity
and lastly louder exhaust sound...
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by blk on blk
I probably should clarify that a bit. My buddy was referencing a late 80's or early 90's Hyundai car he had back in college. He claimed it to be the worst car ever produced and totally un-roadworthy. I am well aware of the fact that Korean manufactoring in this day and age is some of the best out there. I know Kia makes a very high quality, affordable car, and I know that Samsung makes some outstanding products in many different appliance and electronic realms. I was not trying to insult anyone or any current Korean made product. I hope this clarifies.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
From: Reno, Nevada
1. More power 400+ for an S
2. Less weight
3. More power 400+ for an S
4. Evolutionary styling ques
5. More power 400+ for an S
6. Simplicity in interior features (although sat. radio would be nice)
7. More power 400+ for an S
8. More torque
I would love to see the 998 C2S with the 997 GT3 performance and evolved styling.
2. Less weight
3. More power 400+ for an S
4. Evolutionary styling ques
5. More power 400+ for an S
6. Simplicity in interior features (although sat. radio would be nice)
7. More power 400+ for an S
8. More torque
I would love to see the 998 C2S with the 997 GT3 performance and evolved styling.
Racer
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 463
Likes: 1
From: Auckland NZ
Hi guys (from a 993 Forum interloper)
This is an interesting discussion.
I agree that the 998 will probably involve a leap forward as opposed to a revision. With the introduction of the Cayman, the gap between Porsche models has narrowed, both in outright performance, and "driver appeal".
The 911 needs to be the benchmark car in the range, so the 998 needs to be more powerful and generally better performing.
The design heritage is vital....it must look like a 911, but there are some things that need to change. Whilst the large overhangs are probably partly due to the rear engine configuration and the need to balance it, it dates the car terribly. The glasshouse area is a design icon, so shouldn't be messed with too much, but maybe a more raked windscreen and a generally lower roofline?
Overall though, Porsche need to decide what market they want the 911 to sit in. With the Panamera going the "luxury performance" way, and the Cayman covering the "sportscar" area, should the 911 become more "hard-core" along the lines of the GT3?....competing with the Ferrari 430, or stay luxo performance a'la DB9.
My hope is for a car that will make me want to trade my 993, but I have a nasty feeling it will be well out of my price range!
This is an interesting discussion.
I agree that the 998 will probably involve a leap forward as opposed to a revision. With the introduction of the Cayman, the gap between Porsche models has narrowed, both in outright performance, and "driver appeal".
The 911 needs to be the benchmark car in the range, so the 998 needs to be more powerful and generally better performing.
The design heritage is vital....it must look like a 911, but there are some things that need to change. Whilst the large overhangs are probably partly due to the rear engine configuration and the need to balance it, it dates the car terribly. The glasshouse area is a design icon, so shouldn't be messed with too much, but maybe a more raked windscreen and a generally lower roofline?
Overall though, Porsche need to decide what market they want the 911 to sit in. With the Panamera going the "luxury performance" way, and the Cayman covering the "sportscar" area, should the 911 become more "hard-core" along the lines of the GT3?....competing with the Ferrari 430, or stay luxo performance a'la DB9.
My hope is for a car that will make me want to trade my 993, but I have a nasty feeling it will be well out of my price range!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,249
Likes: 0
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada...
You guys have it all wrong! Make it better? Pffff they won't do that, that would be crazy.
The new 998 will have:
More Cast-Iron pieces to fix those rattles
Steel wheels so driving in the winter is easiesr
Less powerful brakes so things get really exciting
Move the wheels closer together
The interior will have a granite dashboard
Marble floor
What else? Hahaha I'm kidding, obviously the 'new' one will be better, we'll just have to see how much the Porsche Accountants tore away at the Engineers' Wish List.
Cheers
The new 998 will have:
More Cast-Iron pieces to fix those rattles
Steel wheels so driving in the winter is easiesr
Less powerful brakes so things get really exciting
Move the wheels closer together
The interior will have a granite dashboard
Marble floor
What else? Hahaha I'm kidding, obviously the 'new' one will be better, we'll just have to see how much the Porsche Accountants tore away at the Engineers' Wish List.
Cheers
Moderator
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,993
Likes: 11
From: Connecticut
What I'd like...
Stick with the 3.8 engine, incorporate the X51 package and add the DFI they are working on reportedly for the 2008 997. That should get you to 400 HP.
Remove the sunroof (make it an option), make 19s and Xenons an option on the S (boy do I wish I could have purchased my S without those 3).
Simplify (back to roots) and make the PCM an option as it is on the GT3. What a great dash that would be in the Base and S models.
Reduce the weight.
That's pretty much it - the perfect 998
Stick with the 3.8 engine, incorporate the X51 package and add the DFI they are working on reportedly for the 2008 997. That should get you to 400 HP.
Remove the sunroof (make it an option), make 19s and Xenons an option on the S (boy do I wish I could have purchased my S without those 3).
Simplify (back to roots) and make the PCM an option as it is on the GT3. What a great dash that would be in the Base and S models.
Reduce the weight.
That's pretty much it - the perfect 998
Drifting
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,224
Likes: 24
From: Indiana
Personally I think Porsche needs to do something to address the increasing weight issue. I personally don’t think the solution is to add more power, but instead reduce the weight. I think the power is fine but the car should weigh significantly less with the power out put. I would like to see the current engine developed more to increase durability and to reduce weight. IMO if GM can produce the corvette at its current weight, then Porsche should be able to put the 911 on a diet without significantly increasing cost. I think evolutionary changes to the exterior styling is all that is needed. I like the interior design of the 997 and would save the resources for other developments. I think these are realistic goals for the 998.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,208
Likes: 2
First, you don't need the extra power, any larger wheels/tires or bigger brakes if the car gets lighter to improve perfomance. if you want a slightly heavier car with 400 hp, buy a 993 Turbo. It is pretty disgusting to realize the base weight of a Carrera S is around 3300 lbs or about 1000 lbs more than a 2.7 RS. What is even worse is a 996 turbo tip Cab with a hardtop, is over 2 tons. Sports car or luxury cruiser? My vote is lighter, smaller and more nimble. Move away from the electronic add-ons (PSM and PASM) to re-focus it back as a true driver's car. Get the weight under 3000 lbs and everything else will be icing on the top.