Z06 or 997S
10-05-2006, 12:14 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by JohnnyNarcosis
Hey Riot! Good to read that you're still with us. Look, me do Atlas, too! Likey.
Seriously, I bought a C6 Z06 back in January. The most amazing monster motor of all time. Fastest, rumbliest car you can imagine. Just EPIC, EXPLOSIVE acceleration from any speed. Lots of GM widgets. Quality was good enough. Excellent daily drivability and simply AMAZING gas milage. Seriously, the best light weight, two seat, highway rocket ( or 1/4 miler ) available. Period.
1200 miles and then I sold it. Tossing it around the twistie courses lost it for me. Steering feel conveyed nothing about where the tires were on the friction circle. Oversteer was like a sword over my head hanging by a hair. Power assist was WAY too much... like a TownCar. It was late and heavy at turn in. The exhaust note on the heel toe was pathetic, weak, sad, and/or non-existent... though it would ROAR like only a super V8 can when I punched it. The throttle on mine was full of play, too close the the driveline hump, and the visibility was like reclining in a WWII "pill box". The run flats and the monster thick sways broadcast every road dimple into the seat of your pants (and I would have changed those... as soon as tires were available).
Basically, if I wasn't using the INCREDIBLE power to blast forward several time zones, I was questioning what good it really was for me... because I throw mine around the twisties.
And, since selling it the roof panel has flown off. Apparently not enough GLUE. or not the right GLUE. Of course, at the end of the day you have to take your $80K Chevy (after tax and fees) to the Chevy dealer to get Chevy level service. But, I'd have snuck mine into the Cadillac dealer. Also GM, being the geniuses that they are, are already undermining their loyal Z06 customers by building a faster "better" Vette than the Z06 called the "SS", and, they are talking about putting the unique Z06 motor in just about everything in their line up... making it common. Dumb stuff.
By all the standards that make the Z06 great, the C4S I'm driving now is a loser. It costs more and it is slower... and I still can't get enough of the steering feel, the quick/light turn in, the throttle sensitivity, the engine note, the fantastic visibility, the steel beams and panels, yada yada yoda.
I went back to a 911 as fast as possible. Life is too short to compromise just for power. Now, if the corporate goons at GM ever ask the excellent engineers at GM to build them a Z06 Vette that has steering feel, balance, visibility, heel toe engine note, throttle touch, and is unique for more than a year... well, then I'm in!
In advance, I'd like to remind the Corvette faithful that I have owned and driven the C6 Z06, that this is a Porsche forum not the Corvette forum, that Riotgear asked for my opinion, and God Damn I'm still allowed to have any opinion I f-ing come to, and, may God Bless you but if you don't like my opinion - GO POUND SAND.
EDIT - I just read your pic post and that is the way to go, Black on Black (mine was like mastiff dog's), and those are the correct reasons to go there. If you are looking for power, STUNNING RAW POWER, with really good gas milage, the Z06 is the way to go. But, get a deal, get a Caravaggio steering wheel, and as soon as you can put some non-run flat rubber on her. BTW, that Black car is WICKED.
Seriously, I bought a C6 Z06 back in January. The most amazing monster motor of all time. Fastest, rumbliest car you can imagine. Just EPIC, EXPLOSIVE acceleration from any speed. Lots of GM widgets. Quality was good enough. Excellent daily drivability and simply AMAZING gas milage. Seriously, the best light weight, two seat, highway rocket ( or 1/4 miler ) available. Period.
1200 miles and then I sold it. Tossing it around the twistie courses lost it for me. Steering feel conveyed nothing about where the tires were on the friction circle. Oversteer was like a sword over my head hanging by a hair. Power assist was WAY too much... like a TownCar. It was late and heavy at turn in. The exhaust note on the heel toe was pathetic, weak, sad, and/or non-existent... though it would ROAR like only a super V8 can when I punched it. The throttle on mine was full of play, too close the the driveline hump, and the visibility was like reclining in a WWII "pill box". The run flats and the monster thick sways broadcast every road dimple into the seat of your pants (and I would have changed those... as soon as tires were available).
Basically, if I wasn't using the INCREDIBLE power to blast forward several time zones, I was questioning what good it really was for me... because I throw mine around the twisties.
And, since selling it the roof panel has flown off. Apparently not enough GLUE. or not the right GLUE. Of course, at the end of the day you have to take your $80K Chevy (after tax and fees) to the Chevy dealer to get Chevy level service. But, I'd have snuck mine into the Cadillac dealer. Also GM, being the geniuses that they are, are already undermining their loyal Z06 customers by building a faster "better" Vette than the Z06 called the "SS", and, they are talking about putting the unique Z06 motor in just about everything in their line up... making it common. Dumb stuff.
By all the standards that make the Z06 great, the C4S I'm driving now is a loser. It costs more and it is slower... and I still can't get enough of the steering feel, the quick/light turn in, the throttle sensitivity, the engine note, the fantastic visibility, the steel beams and panels, yada yada yoda.
I went back to a 911 as fast as possible. Life is too short to compromise just for power. Now, if the corporate goons at GM ever ask the excellent engineers at GM to build them a Z06 Vette that has steering feel, balance, visibility, heel toe engine note, throttle touch, and is unique for more than a year... well, then I'm in!
In advance, I'd like to remind the Corvette faithful that I have owned and driven the C6 Z06, that this is a Porsche forum not the Corvette forum, that Riotgear asked for my opinion, and God Damn I'm still allowed to have any opinion I f-ing come to, and, may God Bless you but if you don't like my opinion - GO POUND SAND.
EDIT - I just read your pic post and that is the way to go, Black on Black (mine was like mastiff dog's), and those are the correct reasons to go there. If you are looking for power, STUNNING RAW POWER, with really good gas milage, the Z06 is the way to go. But, get a deal, get a Caravaggio steering wheel, and as soon as you can put some non-run flat rubber on her. BTW, that Black car is WICKED.
Excellent write up Johnny! Very much appreciated! How was the ride quality in the Z06 compared to your C4S? I have until spring of 2007 to make a decision and I haven't ruled out the 997S. I really miss owning a Porsche.
10-05-2006, 12:18 AM
#32
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Thread Starter
mdrobc1213, thanks for the comments. To be honest, I never even considered the Vette Z06 before the C6 Z06 because the interior was so damn cheap looking. The C6, although not Lexus quality is at least designed well and neatly organized.
BTW - What are you flying? I almost went to UFT in the Air Force (did ROTC in college), but dropped out of the program when I got married. The wife protested. Ironically she is in Iraq (USAFR Nurse) and I am in Silicon Valley behind a desk! My buddy who I would have entered the program with graduated from UFT 2 years ago and is a T-38 instructor. He is awaiting to be assigned to a B1 squadron.
The only planes I get to fly now are radio controlled. lol
BTW - What are you flying? I almost went to UFT in the Air Force (did ROTC in college), but dropped out of the program when I got married. The wife protested. Ironically she is in Iraq (USAFR Nurse) and I am in Silicon Valley behind a desk! My buddy who I would have entered the program with graduated from UFT 2 years ago and is a T-38 instructor. He is awaiting to be assigned to a B1 squadron.
The only planes I get to fly now are radio controlled. lol
10-05-2006, 12:53 AM
#34
Rennlist Member
Riotgear
My buddy flies the AF version of learjets and GIII's (he's the one with the vette Z06). I am a backseater and have alot of time in vipers (F16's...thus my love for fast cars and in a prior life bikes!) but also time in heavys such as tankers and VIP transports such as Air Force 2 and Sec/cabinet level transport (C40 vs C32)...now that's the way to fly!
My other buddy an F16 driver is of the AMG MB CL class persuassion.
My buddy flies the AF version of learjets and GIII's (he's the one with the vette Z06). I am a backseater and have alot of time in vipers (F16's...thus my love for fast cars and in a prior life bikes!) but also time in heavys such as tankers and VIP transports such as Air Force 2 and Sec/cabinet level transport (C40 vs C32)...now that's the way to fly!
My other buddy an F16 driver is of the AMG MB CL class persuassion.
10-05-2006, 01:20 AM
#35
Originally Posted by riotgear
Excellent write up Johnny! Very much appreciated! How was the ride quality in the Z06 compared to your C4S? I have until spring of 2007 to make a decision and I haven't ruled out the 997S. I really miss owning a Porsche.
So, on the C6 Z06, the first thing I noticed was the sub-par ride quality of the Goodyear EMT's. Combine those EMT's with the stock monster sways on the C6 Z06 ( approaching T1 race setup size sways ) and I recognized that MOST of the negatives in the C6 Z06 ride quality came from the stock rubber and sways. It was not too stiff, it was too hard, and I am convinced that non run flat rubber and, say, a set of the next softest C6 sways - Z51?, or, F55? - would have nicely settled the ride to stiff but smooth. I'm not sure that a lighter set of wheels would have been a benefit without a changing of the rear leaf spring... I'd leave the front spring alone... but the rear leaf would have to be reseached and adjusted if one put lighter rims on the C6 Z06, I believe. I did this on my C5 and it made a great difference for the positive.
Again to ride quality, it's not nit-picking... but the seats in the C6 Z06 need to be upgraded to a better quality seat to do the rest of the geometry justice. The seats and the steering wheel are just a bizarre GM oversight on the Z06. Seriously, it's a factory designed trackable street car thus the connection points for hands and body should be track designed... or at least decent imitations of trackable products. (Example, the side bolstered BMW M3 seats, or something like them, would just change the experience.) But, each is changible with aftermarket goodies and the car would be worth performing those changes on.
This is for sure about the Z06, mods or not... if you own one, you own the fastest car on the road, any day. Nothing can catch you.
10-05-2006, 09:13 AM
#36
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Originally Posted by rmira
I love my 997, but I'm in awe of the Z06s total performance dominantion of almost all cars costing less than $200K. (Check out the videos on www.m5board.com.)
Truthfully - how many of wish that our beloved 997s were a performance match to the Z06.
Truthfully - how many of wish that our beloved 997s were a performance match to the Z06.
Having owned an '05 C6 myself (for 14 months) and ridden in a C6Z06, I am not impressed in the least with a Corvette. Yeah, it has sheer raw power at 400hp/505hp respectively but it shifts like chit, has no feedback or responsiveness and I would bet the damn thing can drive itself. The Vette IS NOT a driver's car. I won't go into the fit/finish and overall crappy Tupperware interior of those things. That has been beat to death already.
All this talk about mind numbing power.......psssst, it is a 7 LITRE engine. With just minor header and exhaust change and ECU upgrade a 3.8 litre flat six pushes out well over 400hp. That is impressive to me.
If you want raw power to race from stoplight to stoplight and could give a rat's *** about build quality then get the Vette.
10-05-2006, 05:16 PM
#37
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If you want raw power to race from stoplight to stoplight and could give a rat's *** about build quality then get the Vette.
The problem is that the Z06 is also faster around corners, on the track, etc. It's not even close. There is no argument relative to performance
The problem is that the Z06 is also faster around corners, on the track, etc. It's not even close. There is no argument relative to performance
10-05-2006, 06:33 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by DGuida
If you want raw power to race from stoplight to stoplight and could give a rat's *** about build quality then get the Vette.
The problem is that the Z06 is also faster around corners, on the track, etc. It's not even close. There is no argument relative to performance
The problem is that the Z06 is also faster around corners, on the track, etc. It's not even close. There is no argument relative to performance
If I am truly concerned that much about performance, I would get the 997GT3 and wipe the Z06's *** on the track but why be concerned about "having the fastest car" out there......unless you are going to track the car 75% of the time or more.
I would take the 3.8 litre 355 HP and do some minor mods to get to just over 400HP. Then on top of having a very fast car, I would also have one that is 10 times better in fit/finish than a Vette. I'm telling you, I owned one and they are freakin junk. Dead battery, flying roof, crank pully problems, horrendous orange peel, crappy interior, clumsy shifting, awkard driving position, horrific visibility, etc. The *** end looks as if it was chopped off. For godssake, the interior in a Saturn Sky blows the Z's interior away. I know the Z is super fast but there is more to a car (much more to me) than sheer performance. After all, how often is one going to use 400HP let alone 505?
10-05-2006, 07:29 PM
#39
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It's obvious you're not concerned with performance, or you would have bought the C6 Z06. And you're wrong when comparing the performance differences between the 997gt3 and c6 Z06. Although you would pay a lot more for the 997 GT3. Just enjoy driviing a 997, it a nice car, it looks great, but it doesn't perform as well as a Z06, or for that matter a C6, on the street or track.
10-05-2006, 07:49 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by DGuida
Just enjoy driviing a 997, it a nice car, it looks great, but it doesn't perform as well as a Z06, or for that matter a C6, on the street or track.
In my old M3 (333hp and a real trunk, in case we're keeping score), I could hang with C5 Z06s all day. In this 997, I haven't had a Corvette pass me yet. I'm not saying I'm fast - I'm not and I still don't know how to drive this car properly at the limit - I'm saying that there's something inherently right about a car that comes from the factory with hard parts (suspension, brakes, wheel bearings, cooling systems) that can take track abuse, and don't need to be modified.
10-05-2006, 08:30 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by DGuida
It's obvious you're not concerned with performance, or you would have bought the C6 Z06. And you're wrong when comparing the performance differences between the 997gt3 and c6 Z06. Although you would pay a lot more for the 997 GT3. Just enjoy driviing a 997, it a nice car, it looks great, but it doesn't perform as well as a Z06, or for that matter a C6, on the street or track.
See below how a C6 compares to a 997S. This is on the largest track known to mankind where a higher displacement SHOULD shine. On a smaller track, a 997S walks a C6 all day long. And it better be a Z51 suspension or it gets annhilated. Sorry to burst your Vette bubble. Oh well, I'll enjoy driving my car (whether it be my CS or a 997S) that has a much better build quality and performs just as good if not better.
7:57 --- 155.472 km/h -- Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo, 600PS/1558 kg (sport auto 05/98)
7:58 --- 156.652 km/h -- Audi RS4 4.2 V8 FSI, 420 PS/ 1650 kg, Frank Stippler, (10/05) http://www.8200rpm.com/forum/read.ph...16841&t=16841\
7:59 --- 154.822 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM setting “Performance”, (Walter Roehrl WHEELS 06/ 2004)
7:59* -- 154.822 km/h -- Chevrolet C6 Z51, company test driver Dave Hill (*mfr.)
7:59 --- 154.822 km/h -- Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R, Dirk Schoymans (Autocar magazine 97)
7:59.41 154.690 km/h -- Subaru Impreza WRX STi spec.C "prototype" (2004), www.subaru.com.hk/pdf/SNW0404.pdf
8:01.72 153.984 km/h -- Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R, (Best Motoring video "Carrera Invasion")
8:02 --- 153.858 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM setting “Sport”, (Walter Roehrl WHEELS 06/ 04)
8:03 --- 153.540 km/h – Aston Martin V8 Vantage, 385 PS/1636 kg, Pirelli P Zero Corsa (sport auto 10/05)
8:03 --- 153.540 km/h -- Porsche 911 GT3, 360 PS/1391 kg (sport auto 08/99)
8:04 --- 153.223 km/h -- Lamborghini Diablo GT, 575 PS/1620 kg (sport auto 07/00)
8:05 --- 152.907 km/h -- Ferrari 575M Maranello F1, 580 PS/1820 kg (sport auto 12/02)
8:05 --- 152.907 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM settino “Standard”, Walter Roehrl (WHEELS 06/04)
8:05 --- 152.907 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, 355PS/1461kg (sport auto 05/05), http://speed.supercars.net/PitLane?v...ID=2&tID=36440
8:05 --- 152.907 km/h -- Ruf CTR, http://www.lad.lv/~martini/porsche/V...rburgring1.wmv
8:06 --- 152.592 km/h -- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG (sport auto 04/02)
8:06.01 152.589 km/h -- Subaru WRX Sti C-spec (Best Motoring video "Carrera Invasion")
8:07 --- 152.279 km/h -- Ferrari 550 Maranello, 485 PS/1724 kg (sport auto 06/98)
8:07.76 152.041 km/h -- BMW M6, 507 PS/1761 kg, Prinz Luitpold von Bayern (AutoBild 02/06)
8:09 --- 151.656 km/h – Audi RS4, 420 PS/1728 kg (sport auto 06/06), http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...ID=2&tID=87373
8:09 --- 151.656 km/h -- BMW M6, 507 PS/1761 kg (sport auto 12/05), http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...ID=2&tID=63338
8:09 --- 151.656 km/h -- Honda NSX-R, 320 PS/1467 kg (sport auto 08/02)
8:09 --- 151.656 km/h -- Ferrari 360 Modena , 400 PS/1464 kg (sport auto 10/99)
8:09 --- 151.656 km/h -- Lamborghini Diablo SV, 520 PS/1590 kg (sport auto 12/97)
8:10 --- 151.114 km/h -- Aston Martin V8 Vantage (Top Gear 02/05)
8:10 --- 151.114 km/h -- Chrysler Viper GTS, 411 PS/1567 kg (sport auto 10/97)
8:10 --- 151.347 km/h -- Donkervoort D8 180R, 210 PS/650 kg (sport auto 03/01)
8:10.75 151.265 km/h -- Subaru Impreza WRX STi Version III sedan (1996), www.subaru.com.hk/pdf/SNW0404.pdf
8:11 --- 151,274 km/h -- Mitsubishi Lancer EVO IX (Best Motoring video 14)
8:11* -- 151,274 km/h -- Porsche Cayman S, 295 PS/1340 kg, test driver Walter Roehrl (*mfr.) (sport auto 07/05)
8:12 --- 150.732 km/h -- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG, 476 PS/1651 kg (sport auto 04/02)
8:12 --- 150.732 km/h -- Porsche 993 Turbo (sport auto 03/97)
8:12 --- 150.732 km/h -- Porsche 993 Turbo works tuning (sport auto 06/97)
8:33 --- 150.426 km/h – Aston Martin V8 Vantage, 385 PS/1636 kg, Bridgestone Potenza RE 50 (sport auto 10/05)
8:13 --- 150.426 km/h -- BMW M5 (E60), 507 PS/1844 kg (sport auto 12/04) http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...ID=2&tID=13956
8:13 --- 150.426 km/h -- Lotus Esprit Sport 350, 354 PS/1324 kg (sport auto 05/99)
8:13 --- 150.426 km/h -- Dodge Viper SRT-10, 506 hp (sport auto, 10/04)
8:14 --- 150.120 km/h -- Mercedes SL 65 AMG, 612 PS/2049 kg (sport auto 01/05), http://speed.supercars.net/PitLane?v...ID=2&tID=23337
8:14.98 149.824 km/h -- Mitsubishi Carisma Evo VIII GSR MR 8 (Best Motoring video "Carrera Invasion")
8:15 --- 149.818 km/h – BMW Z4 M Roadster, 343 PS/1485 kg, http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/driven/..._roadster.html
8:15 --- 149.818 km/h -- Alpina Roadster S, 300 PS/1416 kg (sport auto 6/05), http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...ID=2&tID=44295
8:15 --- 149.818 km/h -- Corvette C6, 404 PS/1491 kg (sport auto 08/05), http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...ID=0&tID=46738
Last edited by amerlemans; 10-05-2006 at 10:29 PM.
10-05-2006, 09:39 PM
#42
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I would like to extend my apologies to all of you guys who detest the Z06 and prefer the Porsche regardless of model. 
This is the Porsche forum and I have commited a major no no here even bringing up the Z06 and sharing photos of my new car.
I hope you will all forgive me, here is my other car, I hope you won't bash this one:
This is the Porsche forum and I have commited a major no no here even bringing up the Z06 and sharing photos of my new car.
I hope you will all forgive me, here is my other car, I hope you won't bash this one:
10-05-2006, 11:46 PM
#43
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Thread Starter
nkhalidi, blame the drivers not the car. And we're not talking about the C5 Z06, we're talking about the C6 Z06. Two very different cars.
amerlemans, once again you're talking about the wrong car. No one is comparing the C6 to the 997S, that would be stupid.
We're talking about the C6 Z06.
mastiff, we've seen your cars.
amerlemans, once again you're talking about the wrong car. No one is comparing the C6 to the 997S, that would be stupid.
We're talking about the C6 Z06.mastiff, we've seen your cars.
10-06-2006, 12:07 AM
#44
Racer
Why do we have to keep rehashing this crap/thread every 4 to 6 weeks? It's like arguing religion or politics, you can't win. I guess there is some entertainment value to reading the posts, kind of like watching Jerry Springer, maybe Dr. Phil....
10-06-2006, 12:10 AM
#45
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Originally Posted by 4thporsche
Why do we have to keep rehashing this crap/thread every 4 to 6 weeks? It's like arguing religion or politics, you can't win. I guess there is some entertainment value to reading the posts.