ChrisF

Hi all. Longtime lurker. Only previous posts were in a thread regarding the EVO (my current car). My current daily driver is a track prepped and modded 380hp+ Mitsubishi EVO. It's just become too much for daily driving so I'm looking for something else. I consider myself a fairly competant driver. I probably track an average of 10-15 times a year.

I have been reading up like crazy as I contemplate my next car purchase. I have been thinking about turning my EVO into a full time track car and getting a P car of some type for daily driving and fun. I've always wanted one dating back to the 70's and have decided now is the time. The prime candidates were the Cayman S, 996 C4S and possibly a 996tt.

This Sunday I managed to make it down to Bellevue, WA and a visit to Barrier Porsche (I'm currently working up in Vancouver BC). Unlike my prior experiences at Porsche dealerships, the salesman, Alex Pulver, was an obvious enthusiast and was extremely pleasant. This even after I told him I wasn’t buying today. He took the time to let me test drive three cars. Unfortunately, the 996tt they had was a later model way out of my price range so I didn’t even try to test it. Probably a good thing. I got a chance to run the dealership’s test course which included a few nice stretches, a decreasing radius cloverleaf freeway onramp and a few exits of freeway.

1st up – Cayman S: I really wanted to love this car. Exterior and interior are beautiful. The car had a lot more power than the Boxster S I tested a couple of months ago, but still felt kind of weak. The handling was a little weird to me. I think it was just my lack of experience driving a mid engined car. It had tremendous grip and the engine loved being revved out. Despite not having a lot of torque, I had forgotten what it was like to drive a car below 4000RPM’s (read: used to turbo lag). The seating position seemed a little off center from the pedals. It felt a little awkward to me. It was very nice. Not great.

2nd up – 05 997 Carrera: The salesman suggested it even though I hadn’t really ever considered one. I thought that the power was too low and that I wouldn’t care for it unless it was the S version. OH MY GOD I LOVED THIS CAR!!! The power and torque was very nice. It actually felt closer to the EVO than anything else I drove this day. The ride was fantastic and the handling on the onramp was impressive especially with so so OEM rubber. I rowed the gears on the freeway and was at 110 before I knew it. It took every part of me not to let on how much I loved this car. If it’s this good, a 997 Carrera S must be amazing; the 997 turbo…well, lets just say thank god I'm somewhat level headed so that I didn't do something stupid like taking out a second mortgage on the house for one! I never thought I’d say this, but I’d consider giving up the EVO entirely for a 997 Carrera S. That's how much I loved it.

3rd up – 03 996 Carrera 4S: This is the car I came to see. It had H&R coilovers, wheels and tires. Engine was stock. To me, the 996 interior has aged very poorly. For a car that costs this much, I honestly would say I prefer the EVO interior dollar for dollar. The leather was good, but the controls seemed cheap and dated after only 3 years. The car had nice performance but it felt weaker than the 997 and with a narrower power band. The ride was similar in comfort to the 997, but it felt like a modded car that hadn’t been sorted out. The steering felt a little less sensitive and less precise. I think that based on the two cars, I prefer a 2wd 911. My last two cars have been AWD and I think I'm ready for a change as well.

I am now on the hunt for an 05 997 C2S. If I could find a nice example with an aero kit, that would be ideal. If not, I could always add it.

My only concern at this point is I don't see a lot of higher mileage cars, even 996's. The opinion of a lot of board members seems to be that a 911 with over 80k miles is long in the tooth and a rarity rather than the norm. Can those in the know please comment on the life expectancy of a daily driver 996/997? It would be appreciated.

thanks

mooty

the cayman you drove must have some strange alignment issues. it should be very easy to drive. also compared to 997S, you shouldn't be able to feel much, if any, power differences at all. the c2 is about 100lbs more and slight more hp, it's really a wash. given equal driver, the c2 will lap slower than cayman s. they do have very different dynamics though. and if you like c2, wait 'til you drive c2s.

996c4s should age well. it sounds like the car you drove was not care for well. my c4s had 30k on it in 12 months and my good friend's has 50k in 3 years. both of these cars look brand new interior or ext and both were driven very hard. above comment is on how they age. but even when new, the 997 987 series do have a bit better fit/finish.

have fun shopping.

ChrisF

Mooty:

That sounds possible. The Cayman felt like the rear was very jittery mid corner while not pushing it very hard. This was on steady-state, then increasing throttle post apex. The rear was hopping and bobbing mid corner. Neither of the 911's did this. It felt odd. The C2 felt MUCH stronger torque wise than the Cayman S. Maybe the Cayman motor was still too tight.

As for the "ageing well" comment, I think I would have better stated it by saying that I did not care for it. It seemed in excellent shape given it's age, but the design felt extremely sub-par for a car of this price point. Just my opinion.

kauai_diver

Nice read there Chris.

I see a lot of older Porsches on the roads I'm sure with well over 100k miles. These cars are built well and built to last. But keep in mind Porsche have never made grand interiors.

I have 4500 miles on my 997S and not quite yet at 3 months ownership, and wasnt even supposed to be my daily driver. So yah if you get one you will find all sorts of excuses to get out of the house and drive

As a daily driver in the south bay area I dont see a problem except for rear tire wear... Im probably going to replace mine after I do a track day up at Thunderhill in October.

mooty

yeah, if at steady state you find cayman jumpy, it's way off alignment i am sure.

your "i did'nt care for it" comment on 996 is somthing that many of us feel about. it could have been executed better.

ChrisF

Mooty: Also take the "didn't care for it" with a grain of salt. Standards for power and handling are relative. I thought the 996 was a fabulous car. It just didn't provide me with anything more than I already have in the EVO performance or interior wise. I know opinions vary, but for the increase in cost, to me, it's not worth it. The 997 on the other hand was the first car that has wowed me in any recent memory. Too bad about the Cayman. May have to give it another try somewhere else.

Jay Wellwood

Thanks for the un-biased write up - it was a good read.

Bullet

The 997 C2S truly is an amazing car, but as you've discovered, even the C2 is great. Don't hesitate to get a C2 if you can find a nice one.

-B

WAY

ChrisF, the Cayman was not out of allignment. Relative to the 997, the Cayman does feel much less hunkered down in the rear. I was going through the same excercise a few months back, having wanted a Cayman S very badly (I owned a Boxster S for 3 years). Like you, I am also a regular track driver and consider myself a competent driver. I was also not one of those people who have always dreamt of owning a 911. In fact I actually thought the 911 was much better suited to someone more mature (I was 30). But after driving them back to back, I had almost identical assessment as you. The 997C2 just has so much better traction out of corner and much better stability mid corner. The low end torque is also so much stronger. To cut the story short, I ended up with a 997C2. I am sure the 997S would be better again, but I was too afraid to test drive one cos I know I would want it. You are making the right decision. I don't regret the 997 purchase one single bit!
PS: You may want to test drive the 2007 Boxster S. It now has the same engine as the Cayman S and cost quite a bit less.

sullic

I also went to buy a Cayman, but drove a C4, and really prefered the C4. I didn't think I would, as I had been on the Cayman forums for some time, and many of those folks were former 996 owners. As has been mentioned, maybe I just needed more time in a mid engine car to truly appreaciate the car.

I am happy with my decision, and only wish I had more disposable income so i could have gone further up the Pcar food chain, and bought the C4S or a Turbo.

RaceCarDriver

My 02 C4S just hit 50k miles and is in mint condition. Looks and drives like brand new, interior is in mint condition.

Maybe the C4S you drove was not taken care of. You should try to test drive another one before making a final decision. I also test from a Cayman S before buying my C4S. Great car, but I thought the C4S or any 996 911 was better.

frayed

The 997 chassis cars are the ones to own of those that you mentioned, and the S is a rocking car.

As far as longevity, the technical editor in Excellence stated a while back that a properly cared for car should go well into the six digits. I know from experience that BMW's modern inline motors (except perhaps the high strung S54 in the E46 M3) can go 200k miles easily. I think these boxer motors are of similar quality and will go the distance. . . though they don't have the track record of the GT1-derived aircooled motors (which can take punishing track duty and high miles). That lineage of motors are now found only in the GT cars and the TT.

ChrisF

Thanks guys. The feedback is appreciated. I'm hoping to find a great C2S and drive it till the wheels fall off My only concern as stated above is that I'm used to cars making it comfortably into the 6 digit range given I drive anywhere from 15-20k miles a year. I think I'll probably just keep the EVO for a mileage buffer.

ringmeister

It's odd, I actually prefer the Cayman over the 911. The turn-in and time it takes for the car to take a set is just so much better in the Cayman.

krC2S

chris you could probably find an 05 C2S very close to the price of a cayman S
given the power level you're used to respect to the EVO!! it would probably suit you well

there are many babied cars out there so getting a used car you like more would not be a compromise
at all