First Porsche: 2005 C2S or 2007 Cayman S?
08-31-2006, 12:50 PM
#31
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I really appreciate the thoughtful and insightful analysis everyone here has offered. I'm quite amazed at the number of guys who took the time to seriously answer my question. This has been quite helpful to me. I have a much better of what I should be thinking about as I make my decision now than when I posted my question.
My plan now is to spend the weekend driving both cars as much as I can and then making a final decision.
I'll keep you guys posted when I choose... and no matter what I'll be a regular visitor to this great forum.
Thanks, Chris
My plan now is to spend the weekend driving both cars as much as I can and then making a final decision.
I'll keep you guys posted when I choose... and no matter what I'll be a regular visitor to this great forum.
Thanks, Chris
08-31-2006, 04:26 PM
#33
Originally Posted by Mineral
My plan now is to spend the weekend driving both cars as much as I can and then making a final decision.
Thanks, Chris
Thanks, Chris
Thanks,
MC
08-31-2006, 04:31 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by H20NOO
It's really not necessary to "learn to drive the 911" in the latest generation. The 997 is so safe and tame up to 98% that most people will never get near trouble in these cars, especially if they keep their hands off the PSM. The limits on these cars are so high now, and the suspension, geometry, kinematics, and electronic super nanny have exorcised nearly all the dangerous handling traits that pretty much ended with the introduction of the 993.
Yes, these cars maintain a substantial rearward weight balance but most people will only observe a somewhat different feel in the driving experience, not a fundamental design flaw that must always be respected, as in previous generations of 911's.
MC
Yes, these cars maintain a substantial rearward weight balance but most people will only observe a somewhat different feel in the driving experience, not a fundamental design flaw that must always be respected, as in previous generations of 911's.
MC
It is imperative to learn how to drive a 911 correctly, it might even make for a better Cayman driver, and I'm not just being crotchety today!
08-31-2006, 05:07 PM
#35
Yes, the 911 has a very different driving dynamic than cars with less compromised layout and a good driver can exploit that in various areas of the racetrack. My point is simply that previous generations of 911's required the driver to always be mindful of the design's eagerness to ground loop.
New 911's have largely eliminated the need to worry about that issue and allow the driver to focus more on fundamentals like being smooth, taking the right line, etc. The closer a driver gets to the limits of the car, the more pronounced the design flaw becomes. That tendency becomes more immediately apparent if a driver approaches the limits due to erratic driving.
Much of the handling quirkiness has been engineered out of the new cars through the use of larger tires, suspension that changes geometry through its range of motion, virtual nanny that automatically adjusts throttle and applies brakes, etc...
I agree that near the limit, a different driving style is absolutely necessary to get the most from any 911. From what I've experienced, most people don't get near the limits of these cars even on the race track, and even if they think they do. When the car slides off the track, it's not because they are driving a 911, it's because they early apex corners or stab at the brakes/throttle and make other fundamental mistakes. They may tell everyone it's the handling quirks of the 911 that caused them to fly off the track but it rarely is.
So, in my attempt to be conciliatory, I will admit that even current generation 911's will magnify bad driving habits. And yes, a different driving style is absolutely necessary to squeeze the most from these cars - "slow in, fast out" still applies but trailbraking is no longer verboten. However, many people who believe they've reached 100% of the car's performance have actually reached 100% of their own.
MC
New 911's have largely eliminated the need to worry about that issue and allow the driver to focus more on fundamentals like being smooth, taking the right line, etc. The closer a driver gets to the limits of the car, the more pronounced the design flaw becomes. That tendency becomes more immediately apparent if a driver approaches the limits due to erratic driving.
Much of the handling quirkiness has been engineered out of the new cars through the use of larger tires, suspension that changes geometry through its range of motion, virtual nanny that automatically adjusts throttle and applies brakes, etc...
I agree that near the limit, a different driving style is absolutely necessary to get the most from any 911. From what I've experienced, most people don't get near the limits of these cars even on the race track, and even if they think they do. When the car slides off the track, it's not because they are driving a 911, it's because they early apex corners or stab at the brakes/throttle and make other fundamental mistakes. They may tell everyone it's the handling quirks of the 911 that caused them to fly off the track but it rarely is.
So, in my attempt to be conciliatory, I will admit that even current generation 911's will magnify bad driving habits. And yes, a different driving style is absolutely necessary to squeeze the most from these cars - "slow in, fast out" still applies but trailbraking is no longer verboten. However, many people who believe they've reached 100% of the car's performance have actually reached 100% of their own.
MC
08-31-2006, 09:29 PM
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So, in my attempt to be conciliatory, I will admit that even current generation 911's will magnify bad driving habits. And yes, a different driving style is absolutely necessary to squeeze the most from these cars - "slow in, fast out" still applies but trailbraking is no longer verboten. However, many people who believe they've reached 100% of the car's performance have actually reached 100% of their own.
MC[/QUOTE]
Good Point
MC[/QUOTE]
Good Point