I got hit. Advice on diminished value?
08-19-2006, 02:04 PM
#46
Instructor
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The most important thing is that you are all right and get checked out. I would look into
who you have do the repair, I am not so sure the dealer is the best choice. Do you belong
to the PCA? I would contact your PCA mechanic for your region. They would have more
on the line to preserve their reputation, and may do a better job and use Porsche parts only
and not cut any corners at all (i.e. use non-porsche parts in certain places).
I am ecstatic about how my car was repaired, I feel no compromise at all in how it drives.
who you have do the repair, I am not so sure the dealer is the best choice. Do you belong
to the PCA? I would contact your PCA mechanic for your region. They would have more
on the line to preserve their reputation, and may do a better job and use Porsche parts only
and not cut any corners at all (i.e. use non-porsche parts in certain places).
I am ecstatic about how my car was repaired, I feel no compromise at all in how it drives.
08-19-2006, 08:28 PM
#47
Instructor
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Denver
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CR2000:
You are not bound by the insurance policy between the insured person that hits you and their carrier. You are only bound by the policy from your own insurance carrier. What happens in these cases is that the lawsuit is against the party that committed the tort (hit you), not his insurance carrier.
However, the carrier always steps in to try to muscle a settlement. Frankly, in such case you can blow them off since you have no contractual obligation with the third party carrier. As far as "diminution of value," some states have exclusions while many do not allow such exclusions in the insurance policy. The general rule is that the item (car, aircraft, etc) must be brought back to the pre-accident condition. In my book, repair or part replacement to not meet such standard, hence, comes diminution of value litigation against the tortfeasor.
The issue that comes up during litigation is whether or not the diminution of value is speculative. It is important to get an appraiser or expert opinion on the market value of the vehicle pre-accident and post-accident, given that damage must be disclosed by a seller. In fact, many Mercedes Benz and Porsche dealers will tell you that they will not take an accident history car in trade because of the issue of having to disclose to a subsequent buyer. If a dealer tell you that, get it in writing because it is likely to help your case.
You are not bound by the insurance policy between the insured person that hits you and their carrier. You are only bound by the policy from your own insurance carrier. What happens in these cases is that the lawsuit is against the party that committed the tort (hit you), not his insurance carrier.
However, the carrier always steps in to try to muscle a settlement. Frankly, in such case you can blow them off since you have no contractual obligation with the third party carrier. As far as "diminution of value," some states have exclusions while many do not allow such exclusions in the insurance policy. The general rule is that the item (car, aircraft, etc) must be brought back to the pre-accident condition. In my book, repair or part replacement to not meet such standard, hence, comes diminution of value litigation against the tortfeasor.
The issue that comes up during litigation is whether or not the diminution of value is speculative. It is important to get an appraiser or expert opinion on the market value of the vehicle pre-accident and post-accident, given that damage must be disclosed by a seller. In fact, many Mercedes Benz and Porsche dealers will tell you that they will not take an accident history car in trade because of the issue of having to disclose to a subsequent buyer. If a dealer tell you that, get it in writing because it is likely to help your case.
08-20-2006, 02:05 AM
#48
Sorry to hear...
Sorry to hear about your accident. Having had one a few months ago, I know what it feels like to have a perfect new 997 smashed up.
And like all the others have said on here as well, the important thing is that you and your daughter walked away from the accident, hopefully unscathed.
A 25 yr old man who was involved in the chain reaction accident I was in was killed. That puts things in perspective very fast.
In a few months, this will all be an unpleasant memory. You and your daughter will have many more happy years together driving in your Porsche, be it this one repaired, or a new one!
And like all the others have said on here as well, the important thing is that you and your daughter walked away from the accident, hopefully unscathed.
A 25 yr old man who was involved in the chain reaction accident I was in was killed. That puts things in perspective very fast.
In a few months, this will all be an unpleasant memory. You and your daughter will have many more happy years together driving in your Porsche, be it this one repaired, or a new one!
08-20-2006, 03:12 AM
#49
Originally Posted by barrett
cr2000,
I only skimmed the link you provided about diminished value, but I will say that those cases discussed at the link talk about whether an insurance company is obligated to compensate THEIR INSUREDS for diminished value. The relationship between an insurer and its insured is based on contract; the contract defines the limits of the insurance company's obligations to the insured. Within this context, Texas and other states have held that, unless the contract specifically allows for diminished value, the right to diminished value is not one that courts are going to "read into" the contract.
Now, the question we're talking about here--where someone else's insurance is covering your claim because the other person was at fault--is entirely different. The relationship between you and the other driver's insurance is not defined by contract because no contract exists between you two. Rather, the relationship that is key is the one between you and the other driver (with the other driver's insurance company standing in the driver's shoes). The relationship between you and the other driver is grounded in tort law, not contract law. A claim for diminished value sounds in tort, so no contractual prohibitions against diminished value found in the insurance agreement between the insurance company and its insured can limit your rights. Short answer: you can certainly ask for diminished value. If the insurance company for the other driver tells you to take a hike, sue the other driver. The insurance company will be brought back in to defend the other driver in the litigation.
I only skimmed the link you provided about diminished value, but I will say that those cases discussed at the link talk about whether an insurance company is obligated to compensate THEIR INSUREDS for diminished value. The relationship between an insurer and its insured is based on contract; the contract defines the limits of the insurance company's obligations to the insured. Within this context, Texas and other states have held that, unless the contract specifically allows for diminished value, the right to diminished value is not one that courts are going to "read into" the contract.
Now, the question we're talking about here--where someone else's insurance is covering your claim because the other person was at fault--is entirely different. The relationship between you and the other driver's insurance is not defined by contract because no contract exists between you two. Rather, the relationship that is key is the one between you and the other driver (with the other driver's insurance company standing in the driver's shoes). The relationship between you and the other driver is grounded in tort law, not contract law. A claim for diminished value sounds in tort, so no contractual prohibitions against diminished value found in the insurance agreement between the insurance company and its insured can limit your rights. Short answer: you can certainly ask for diminished value. If the insurance company for the other driver tells you to take a hike, sue the other driver. The insurance company will be brought back in to defend the other driver in the litigation.
Too far fetched?
08-20-2006, 12:25 PM
#50
.org
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 7,635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
this may not be a popular view, but it is just a car. a rapidly depreciating car that in 5 years will be worth less than half of what we all paid.
if it is totaled or stolen , or you just grow weary of it, another is just 8-10 weeks wait time away.
how much effort is it worth to get 10% "diminished" value..10 % of what ? list, what you paid, the 10% more or less of the eventual $35-45 K trade in value ?
we are not talking about an irreplaceable vintage car, modern porsche's are hardly a heirloom you will be willing to the grandkids
the car dropped 20 % the day you turned the key.
get it to the best body shop in town and get it fixed. if your not happy wih the result, trade it and get another.
thankfully, no one was hurt. the rest is just metal, plastic and paint.
if it is totaled or stolen , or you just grow weary of it, another is just 8-10 weeks wait time away.
how much effort is it worth to get 10% "diminished" value..10 % of what ? list, what you paid, the 10% more or less of the eventual $35-45 K trade in value ?
we are not talking about an irreplaceable vintage car, modern porsche's are hardly a heirloom you will be willing to the grandkids
the car dropped 20 % the day you turned the key.
get it to the best body shop in town and get it fixed. if your not happy wih the result, trade it and get another.
thankfully, no one was hurt. the rest is just metal, plastic and paint.
08-20-2006, 01:27 PM
#51
Instructor
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think it is worth pursuing diminished within the first 3 or 4 years from purchase. After that probably not worth it. Get someone to inspect it who is certified to do such things. With your report and a lawyer, the other insurance co. will desire to avoid going to court. Don't let them bully you or make you feel quilty either it is your legal right to do this, and guess what, rental car companies do it all the time so why can't we do it?? Are we less worthy?
08-20-2006, 03:57 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by PTpeecar
this may not be a popular view, but it is just a car. a rapidly depreciating car that in 5 years will be worth less than half of what we all paid.
if it is totaled or stolen , or you just grow weary of it, another is just 8-10 weeks wait time away.
how much effort is it worth to get 10% "diminished" value..10 % of what ? list, what you paid, the 10% more or less of the eventual $35-45 K trade in value ?
we are not talking about an irreplaceable vintage car, modern porsche's are hardly a heirloom you will be willing to the grandkids
the car dropped 20 % the day you turned the key.
get it to the best body shop in town and get it fixed. if your not happy wih the result, trade it and get another.
thankfully, no one was hurt. the rest is just metal, plastic and paint.
if it is totaled or stolen , or you just grow weary of it, another is just 8-10 weeks wait time away.
how much effort is it worth to get 10% "diminished" value..10 % of what ? list, what you paid, the 10% more or less of the eventual $35-45 K trade in value ?
we are not talking about an irreplaceable vintage car, modern porsche's are hardly a heirloom you will be willing to the grandkids
the car dropped 20 % the day you turned the key.
get it to the best body shop in town and get it fixed. if your not happy wih the result, trade it and get another.
thankfully, no one was hurt. the rest is just metal, plastic and paint.
EDIT: Fixed my atrocious typing.
Re-EDIT: Note to self, do not try to type after driving home at 5 am.
Last edited by gravedgr; 08-21-2006 at 12:42 AM.
08-20-2006, 04:06 PM
#53
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by gravedgr
Maybe the correct question should be, how much effort is required before you're willing to throw away 10% of the value? I don't know about you, but I'm doing do to a bit for $9-10k.
08-20-2006, 04:17 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by mglobe
Me too, and I'm fully convinced that it is a real loss of at LEAST that magnitude. How many of us would knowingly buy a car that had been hit hard for the same price as one that had not been hit?
08-20-2006, 09:12 PM
#57
Instructor
Just a California perspective....California damages are limited to the cost of repair or cost of replacement whichever is lower. There is no separate claim for diminished value of a production car. I've heard of a few instances in which diminished value could be ascribed to a classic or vintage/rare automobile that is used for show. But its unlikely to apply to the P-Car. Check with a Texas lawyer before settling the claim.
Sorry about the car...happy to hear you guys are ok.
Sorry about the car...happy to hear you guys are ok.
08-20-2006, 11:37 PM
#58
Originally Posted by Legalkix
Just a California perspective....California damages are limited to the cost of repair or cost of replacement whichever is lower. There is no separate claim for diminished value of a production car. I've heard of a few instances in which diminished value could be ascribed to a classic or vintage/rare automobile that is used for show. But its unlikely to apply to the P-Car. Check with a Texas lawyer before settling the claim.
Sorry about the car...happy to hear you guys are ok.
Sorry about the car...happy to hear you guys are ok.
10-09-2006, 10:18 PM
#59
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
It took six weeks to get my car back from the body shop, and it took me another two weeks to trade it in.
I've now slipped further into my mid-life madness. I just closed a deal to replace my 2005 997 that I just got back from the body shop with... a 2006 997S. Seal Grey, Sport Shifter, Phone, Bose, Sport Chrono (blech), power seats. I got a fair settlement from State Farm on the diminshed value on my car, and am augmenting that with some cash to move up to the new S. I'm picking it up in Austin on Saturday and driving back to Houston. The whole accident thing was a bummer, but it's working out just fine. A clear case of taking lemons and making lemonade.
Pictures to follow of course.
I've now slipped further into my mid-life madness. I just closed a deal to replace my 2005 997 that I just got back from the body shop with... a 2006 997S. Seal Grey, Sport Shifter, Phone, Bose, Sport Chrono (blech), power seats. I got a fair settlement from State Farm on the diminshed value on my car, and am augmenting that with some cash to move up to the new S. I'm picking it up in Austin on Saturday and driving back to Houston. The whole accident thing was a bummer, but it's working out just fine. A clear case of taking lemons and making lemonade.
Pictures to follow of course.
