H20NOO

I think you basically agreed with my statement that Porsche is still an independently owned auto manufacturer. Yes, there is a high degree of cross-pollinization but, Porsche is independent.

With respect to your comments about the Turbo Tip... Thanks for taking the time to correct me but you don't offer any facts or reasons for your position. On the other hand, I have studied the issue and spoken directly with Porsche about the Turbo Tip being quicker than the Turbo 6-speed and the consensus is the same. The ability to "power brake" (i.e. hold the brake, apply the throttle, get the turbo boost up... then launch) is exactly why the Tip is quicker.

If you've read the initial driving reviews of the Turbo, they also concur. For example:

GT - Purely Porsche Magazine (May 2006) "Technical Insight: 2006 997 Turbo" (page 56): "Left foot the brake, right foot moderating the throttle fighting to keep the tacho wound up to 4,000rpm, the Tiptronic transmission struggles against the torque converter until the lights count down to green and Arnold releases the brake and floors the throttle..."

Automobile Magazine (June 2006) "First Test - Everyday Supercar, Blitzing Bavarian Autobahns in the new 2007 Porsche 911 Turbo" (page 88): "The five-speed Tiptronic version is now the quickest Turbo to 60mph, because it is capable of building boost before the wheels turn. Mash both pedals, release the brake, and suddenly the horizon ends up in your lap."

Having driven turbo powered cars both recreationally and competitively, I have applied this technique. I have carried both brake and light throttle through a corner to reduce turbo lag (hold boost) on exit and get a better drive down a straight (in a 5-speed Mazda RX-7 Turbo II) and power-brake pre-loaded the turbo in a Buick Grand National (auto-trans) at a drag strip to optimize a launch.

The acceleration limitations of automatic tranmissions are due largely to the increased parasitic losses and drive train slippage (especially before the advent of the lock-up torque converter). With the Turbo Tip, those issues are not important because the vehicle makes so much power that traction becomes the primary limiting factor. Since a power-braking technique can be used with the Tip to pre-load the drivetrain and launch more quickly, it should be quicker for the rest of the run because both cars have equivalent traction issues. The Tip also gets a small advantage because there is virtually no interruption in boost or power delivery as the gears shift which is certainly not the case with the 6-speed. I hope this helps you understand the reason the Tip is quicker although I'm still very interested in knowing your reasons.

MC

boolala

WRONG. This does not explain why the tip is faster from 50 - 75 mph.

Please try again.

H20NOO

You may be right but I was responding to Jeff's comment regarding 0-60 times. I am not aware if the Tip is faster than the 6-speed from 50-75 mph and I haven't read any reports of that or made any statements about it.

I'd be very interested in the stats if you can provide them or a link to them. I've seen reports in the past that quote "top gear roll-on from 50-75" or similar and automatics always smoke the manuals because a 6-speed stays in 6th gear while the automatic kicks down a gear or two. Really not a fair or honest comparison.

MC

boolala

I honestly don't recall where I read the 50 -75 results. I try to dig it up. It was on an onnline review that someone posted. My only point was that Porsche claims several reasons as to why the tip is faster including an "updated" tiptronic. What's even more surprising is that top speed is the same for the 6-speed and tip. With the weight disadvantage and small power losses through the torque convertor it's hard to see how this could be the case.

boolala

OK I found it: 50 - 75 mph: tip 3.5 s; 6-speed 3.8 s. Source:

http://speedtv.com/articles/newmodels/automotive/22814/

H20NOO

Great find. I have to be honest. If I were buying a Turbo, I'd seriously consider a Tip. I remember when the 996 Turbo was introduced, some motor journalists raved about the Tip on the track and said it was actually better than the 6-sp.

As far as I'm concerned, there is no shame in owning a Tip. It'll take a while for the "automatic transmission" stigma to wear off but, with Tips outperforming manuals, that process won't take long. I once again point to Formula 1, the worlds most sophisticated race cars. They are all automatics by definition - that is to say they can upshift and downshift with no driver input although they are currently upshifted via paddles on the steering wheel and downshifted by software control.

For those race enthusiasts, we have an epic weekend in store. Monaco GP, Indy 500 and some NASCAR event.

Cheers.

MC

Eggplant Cab

H2NOO
The F1 gearboxes are semi-automatic electronically sequential gearboxes, not torque convertor hydrolic based systems. Big difference in performance. As for journalists, too many of them write a lot better than they can drive. FYI, I own a Tip 997S, which is a great road option, but 1 gear too short for the 997 with X51 on a track like the ring (that's my limited 8 laps with my own car last year).

Boolala
I think the top speed is more controlled by gearing. We'll know once the final drive ratios on the transmissions are published.

H20NOO

I'm well aware that F1 gearboxes do not have torque converters. On the contrary, they have a very small, lighweight carbon composite clutch which is only disengaged when the vehicle is in the pits or on the grid. My point is that they are fully capable of upshifting and downshifting without driver input and at much quicker speeds with "no lift" than a true manual. Current F1 regulations require the driver to initiate upshifts via the paddles on the wheel (although I think a less convenient shifter in more traditional location would also meet the regulations) but downshifts can be automa tic and are programmed to occur in a very precise manner based on the specific conditions, corner and race track.

Ok, the wife went to Vegas with her girlfriends, the baby is finished with his 1am snack and I'm going back to bed!

MC

Moogle

As per the original first post:

For the record, Aston Uses a ZF auto box with a torque converter and paddle shifters.

That said, the only tiptronic porsche i would consider is a cayenne for towing, or the 997 Turbo because the Tip system is heavily coordinated with the turbo electronics/etc.

The SMG systems in late model BMWs are AMAZING and better than the Ferrari F1 system found in their road cars.

DSG is an excellent gearbox, but the two clutches seems to take a bit of the fun out since the shifts are SO seamless.

Still no replacement for a proper 6speed... the only bad time is when you are in traffic.

riggzee2

I own an 05 997S Tip S...
I have owned Posche all my adult life '54 356 to 930 Turbo , cpl Boxster S as well. Built and managed Indycars for 30 years, Participated in NASA, PCA, SCCA PRO.
I drive my Tip S in Sport mode (chrono) Always.
Manually 75% of the time, Highway Auto,
I find the shifting in manual brilliant (have absolutely smoked some friends with Carrera S
6 speeds (including a 996tt) In auto (sport mode) one needs to drive a bit agressive initially to set the tone for the mapping. (There are 43 configurations in the TCU fir it to choose from) When I romp on it in auto sport mode I feel it responds nicely.
The Tip S for the 3.8ltr 997S IS a totally different trans than the standard Tip.
Where as it is not as positive as a PDK, I thoroughly enjoy it! I could never shift a manual as fast as this!
Shift kit, Power shifting, no way!
I have timed mine @ 4.2 0-60, 12.38 1/4 mile
PS EVOMS (Evolutipn motorsports) makes a,TCU if you want to ramp up the shifts!

porscheaddicted

My advice with Tiptronic S is leave it in Sport Mode On and don´t use paddles for downshifting lol

rickster997

I added paddle shifters to mine and it makes such a difference!!! I have been back to the switches as I am getting it recovered in Alcantara and I hate the swictches!!! So much better with paddle shifters... no more accidentally shifting during turns...

alvinl

Can you tell me exactly what parts /wheel/ modification to make a paddle shift wheel work?

Asked around no one is certain.

everyone is saying it cant be done on a 997.1

rickster997

I followed these threads... You can see my pictures at the end... Works great.. I soldered the connections rather than using any kind of connectors...

I bought a steering wheel on ebay, bought the paddle shifters and wire harness new...

https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...onversion.html

https://www.renntech.org/forums/tuto...ic-997-cayman/

http://www.sunsetporscheparts.com/oe...he/99761267402

frankyluis23

Geez, not another thread knocking the mighty tip.

I have a C2S Tip and I love it. Yes, it's slower and less engaging than a manual but after a long day at the office and heavy traffic, I am grateful that its an automatic and I can blast the cold A/C and turn on some jazz music on the Bose High End Sound System. At the end of the day it really doesn't matter which transmission you opted for. Everyone uses these cars for different reasons and applications. Automatic or not, these cars haul *** down the freeway and can take corners like no other car can.

Ideally yes, you should get a manual when buying these cars. I would have considered getting a manual myself but I already have a 2011 Mini Cooper S manual and it scratches the itch for me already.

The Tiptronic transmission is highly reliable and if maintained properly will perform for years to come.