PDQ PDK CAYMAN S

I keep telling you guys that Porsche will pay for an aglinement at about 2,000 miles. I had mine done and asked to have it done for maxium tire life. At 13,000 miles I have plenty of rubber.

fast1

Requesting the alignment be done for maximum tire life is the key. After a few thousand miles, a good alignment guy can look at your tire wear and determine how to adjust your alignmet to maximize the life of the tires. Paradoxically enough, driving a car moderately when the wheels are aligned for maximum cornering performance, will actually accelerate uneven tire wear.

BiggerTwin

While I would like to see 15,000 miles on a set of rubber I am not too surprised when I hear people getting 10,000 miles. I remember an M3 owner complaining about tire wear when he usually was pretty easy on the car. It turned out his definition of "pretty easy" included doing donuts in parking lots. He also had some mechanical complaints as well I hope Porsche can align your car for better tire wear but I wouldn't expect 30,000 miles from tires on a car as powerful as the Carrera S.

Alan

1999Porsche911

You CAN setup the alignment to get upwards of 30,000 -40,000 miles out of your tires, but doing so will drastically reduce, not only the safety of the vehicle, but it's handling. I guess those that drive thier Porsche for the "bling" factor, reducing the handling characteristics would not be a problem.

BiggerTwin

While I know alignment can affect tire wear, the better summer performance tires have very soft rubber and I don't know if my grandmother could get that kind of mileage out of them. I have a friend who complained about traction in his Corvette but he hadn't replaced his tires in 30,000 miles. I don't wear mine down to the minimum because they start losing traction in the wet once the sipes are gone even if there is still good tread left. I guess it all depends what you want out of your car and how fast you accelerate and take the turns. Is the Boxster (i.e., my Cayman) as sensitive to alignment and tire wear issues as the Carrera?

Alan

Edgy01

It's clear to me from this dialog that many 997 owners are new to Porsche. It is not uncommon to go through tires because you're driving what is essentially a race car. I recall a friend of mine who ordered a new 930 and went through his first set of tires in 5,000 miles. It's not unusual. What is mutually exclusive is great handling and great tire wear. You really can't have both as tires are always sacrificed for handling,--this is why during races you go through tires all the time. You want it operating at peak performance.

I guess what surprises me a little is people buying $100,000 cars and then worrying about tire wear. You can always have the set up dialed out, but then you lose some of that special 911 handling. This is a constant source of headaches for most Porsche shops,--balancing the suspension tuneup between excellent handling and maximum tire wear. My advice: Drive them like they were meant to be driven and get to know your tire dealer really well. (You might even want to invest in a small tire machine and scale). I suspect Porsche AG is putting different tires on cars based upon where they get delivered. They have already alluded to that by denying the US market the 20mm lower suspensions,--road conditions being what they are in the USA (quite poor) forces them to factor that into their setups.

The other issue is first time Porsche buyers.

I know that I'm generalizing a bit here but here goes. Many people have craved a 911 for years,--essentially as long as they can remember. There's that Porsche mystique. But, they haven't really done their homework. It's not a car for the masses. Sure, Porsche is trying to tailor it to a greater bunch of buyers, with Tiptronic, and spring assisted clutches, AWD, and PASM, etc. and as they do that they remove a lot of what was a 911. I guess I can count myself as lucky,--I bought my first Porsche at 19 and my first new 911 at age 22. Today, I know what it is to drive a tail-happy car and drive accordingly. Ultimately, some things, like tires, get consumed in the process.

Dan

997 S Cabriolet 6-speed
98 Non-Metallic Paint to Sample (custom Ferrari Racing Blue)
06 Natural Leather Brown
CUC Painted Model Desig Rear Lid
CO2 U.S. Standard Emissions
M6H Brown Floor Mats
P01L Adaptive Sports Sts Lthr Int
V9 Black Top
XCZ Sport Shifter
XJT Rear Ctr. Console Makassar
XLF Sport Exhaust System
XRP 5mm Whl Spacers
XSB Sport Seat Backs in Leather
Z0997 Custom Tailoring
2493 Exterior Color to Sample
267 Self Dimming Mirrors
342 Heated Front Seats
405 19" Carrera Classic Wheel
450 Ceramic Composite Brakes-PCCB
451 Makassar Str Whl Multifctn
482 TPMS
498 Delete Model Designation
550 Hard Top
640 Sport Chrono Package Plus
672 Extended Nav Module
680 Bose High End Sound Package
789 997 Paint to Sample
801 Makassar Package
TD5 Tourist Delivery (Grand Tour 11-12 May 06)

Buzz911S

No "bling" factor here. I drive like a normal human being....and I also take it really hot into various S turns and other corners. I'm having a great time with the car, but I don't think this is normal camber. As for the crack about buying a $100k car and worry about tires..... this is a faulty setup from the factory. If I'm going 150mph ... I often do... and that crappy setup causes a tire to blow.... I guess that's just part of the mistique of owning a Porsche too? I don't think so. As I said, the other TT car I own gets raced regularly. It wears the tires flat and the handling is nearly as good as the Porsche. And that's on inexpensive Cooper V rated tires. I'm not a newbie with cars or with road racing. I am very unhappy with the tire wear on the Porsche... the dealer will have to re set the camber. If not, there is going to be BIG trouble. Instead of inviting me to dinner parties and Porsche parties.... the dealership should be spending that money on checking the camber of every car they get before it is sold. What's so hard about that for the money? Unethical if you ask me.

1999Porsche911

Driving at highway speed in a straight line will cause the tires to wear much faster than driving around town or cornering. This is because the normal stance of the car is to ride on the inside half of the rear tires. This allows for the tires surface to be fully on the pavement when cornering and when accelerating hard which provides you maximum traction. You can save the tires by reducing the negative camber if your primary driving is highway, but you will give up some of the aggressive traction characteristics in the corners.

It's all about balance. If you can design a method of changing the camber on the fly, you would have the best of both worlds.

MJSpeed

There's also one thing you're leaving out. Unlike any other car 911's will wear their rear tyres out quicker simply because of where the engine sits, way in the back with all its weight on the rear tyres. Having said that you do have the option (not something I would recommend) of re-aligning the car for better tyre life. However, and the reason I don't recommend this, the car WILL handle different and whether that's good or bad will depend on your driving style.

P-cars with out a doubt are designed to be pushed to the limit and therefore they're set up accordingly. That still doesn't rule out the fact that the set up Germany had on the car when it left the factory may have changed prior to you taking delivery as was the case with my and many GT3's. Something the stealers sorry I mean dealers didn't expect and/or didn't want their techs doing with out someone paying for the added labour.

IMHO I would much prefer a great handling car (even if it means sacrificing my tyres) rather than great life out of my tyres. Then again that's why I owned a GT3 a little to no compromise beast with all its emphasis on performance and complete disregard for things like tyre wear, brake usage etc...

Buzz,

I will never suggest that you may have bought the wrong car. Your reason for buying it however may be the very thing you're disliking.

P-cars are built for performance and unfortunately they are now (996 & 997) trying to add GT type features & comforts to make it more appealing to the masses. And what you'll find is that most of us "old school" Porschefiles expect performance first and we're willing to accept a car with no cup holders, no sat/nav, no sunroof, no 6-cd changer, no heated seats, you get the point.

If you're unhappy with the tyre wear on your car, have it re-aligned it really isn't a big deal. But please do keep in mind that you may not like how the car rides/handles after that. Also no matter what you do, you can NOT change the fact that the engines sits where it does and what it's weight means to your tyres.

Enjoy your Porsche and remember there is no substitute!!

OCBen

And don't think they haven't thought of that either. VarioCam Plus came into being because of the need to be able to adjust cam lift on the fly.

I'm sure 'VarioCamber Plus" is currently being developed by some company, if not Porsche, as we speak. Among other things they will need to incorporate lateral accelerometers to detect lateral g-loads that will signal vehicle cornering along with inputs from PSM to control hydraulic cylinders, for example, that will adjust the camber on the fly. But because chassis loads are tremendous, these cylinders would have to be significant in size, not to mention the hydraulic pump to power them. The additional weight alone may not justify this adjustment feature.

Though it's possible to design such a system, it's much cheaper to just buy new tires.

Buzz911S

Thank you for your reply, MJ. I have calmed down a bit..... Look, I've been involved in sports car racing of some kind for 25 years or so. That, and drag racing. I know a lot more about what is going on than I've said. I've raced all kinds of cars, but I have never seen a production car come off the showroom floor with this amount of negative camber. There has simply been a mistake made by someone in the manufacture of this car. To me this is m ore a question of ethics than it is money. Money is not the issue for me. When I pay this much money for a car I expect it to be checked from stem to stern as soon as it hits the dealership. That would especially be expected for alignment and camber. If they are shipped from Germany on a ship, they are probably cinched down as tight as possible. That's the way Land Rover's are shipped and the first thing they do when they hit the dealership is a total realignment. Every single one of them has too much negative camber by the time it gets here. Their service manager is my best friend.....and he is totally amazed that a foreign car dealer would let a car out the door without doing the same.
So, here is the ethical problem I have with Porsche. When I bought the car I was told the tires were soft and to expect faster wear. I already knew that. They told me to expect to replace them at TWENTY thousand miles. Around the same time I bring the car in for it's first service. If I was told the tires would go 20k miles... that's what I expect. I guess I'm odd in that way. I expect people to live up to their word instead of selling me a car they KNOW will never make more than 10k miles. Basically what I am saying is that I was lied to when I asked the question.... thus the ethical thing comes up. Tell me the truth the first time. I'll probably still buy the car. But lie to me about it or just leave it out for me to find out about later.... and that does stir my anger.

I found your reply refreshing... although, even though the engine sits nearly on top of the rear axle, it can be aligned to counteract that. They just need to get mine a notch or two more positive. At the moment, when I back the car up about 15 feet, the rear axles squat. That tells me there is more going on with the tire wear than just the camber. On first glance, it tells me that the rear tires are aligned wrong for trailing also. When I was a kid, I raced a very quick little *cough* Corvair. It's like a little Porsche. <g> It was aligned with negative rear wheel camber.....but not enough to tear up the tires like this. It had 12" wide Formula One hard compound tires on the rear. I drove that car for at least 50k on those tires... and they were still on it when I sold the car.

So, yeah... I have a lot of racing experience in cars, go karts, pro motocross, hydroplanes, drag racing, you name it. If it made a lot of noise and went fast, I raced it. The Porsche IS the most expensive car I've just written a check for.... and since they are starting to market it as an exotic luxury car, why not make the tires run true to begin with. If you want an aggressive race setup... then tell them that when you buy the car. It's not that hard to get it right the first time.

SrfCity

No excessive where here in 8K miles.

GT3BB

With my GT3 the rears were shreaded after 4000 miles of mild street driving, with my 997 the tires are almost new after the same mileage.

Buzz911S

So, I guess the deal is ... every one of them is different. That doesn't make one bit of sense to me. Is it a quality control issue, or one they just don't seem to care about.? Did you mention to your dealer that the car ate itself at 4000 miles of "mild street driving"? What was the outcome? That's the worst tire wear for the mileage I've heard yet! Yikes!

MrBonus

I think your initial impression that your alignment is out from the factory is correct. Apparently, this isn't uncommon from Porsche. You should probably get it checked out.

For what it's worth, I'm at 11,500 on my tires and I still have enough tread left for a few more thousand miles.