Excellent point.

And "nonmember" status certainly has an ostracizing connotation when compared to "non-sponsor" status.

 

My suggestion would be for sponsors (contributing members) to have Rennlist Sponsor in red under their screen name and non-contributors to have nothing but thier screen name.

And for God's sake, let's get rid of Addict, Registered User, Specialist, etc.

 

I'm sorry to see this discussion come up here. The "us" versus "them" mentality of lining up on either side of a money line - especially when payment is optional - can turn a lively and helpful discussion group into a two-class society really fast. And, it's been my experience that when a one group of people is made to feel "inferior" by another group that considers themselves better "because (they) paid," the first group usually goes elsewhere.
It would be a shame if many of the "non Rennlist members" set up shop elsewhere. As long as this is a "free site," I don't think those that have paid have any right to question the motives of those who haven't. It's elitist and it's counter-productive.
If this site needs donations to keep going, the administrator should say so. Otherwise, who pays and who doesn't is strictly a matter of personal choice.
At least that's the way I see it.

 

That was funny. ... You really set him up for that response, didn't you? ...

 

I agree, it is divisive.

But I also think this discussion is proving productive in that we are thinking of suggestions for removing the stigma, as it were, of nonmember status. The suggestion of changing it to "sponsor" status instead of member status will certainly help to dispel that "us" versus "them" mentality.

 

Ok. I joined up today.
It's not that expensive, and if it helps keep the quality of the board up, I am all for it.
And I get a sticker too????

 

I too was started to feel guilty posting questions so I joined. And yes, the sticker and the sig help too.

 

Until I read this post I had no idea that there was a membership. I thought signing up and getting a password was making you a member.

 

Well, then I guess you definitely didn't see the post that said if you sign up and register you get a date with THPorsche's avitar!

 

John D. made the decision (on Members vs Non-Members) and there are three or four forums that non-members can not participate in but other than that it's all good. Non-members can and have been a valuble source of knowledge. If you choose to be a paying member than great but don't be bitter about the fact that some choose not to pay. After all it was your choice as much as it is theirs.

Now let's get back to discussing P-cars and all the other fun stuff!!

 

I really don't know or understand why Rennlist seems so hung up on the member/nonmember deal. I came from Roadfly's E46 M3 board - I posted there for three years, 21 months nonpaying, 15 months paying - and almost NOBODY ever cared who was paying or nonpaying. Honestly, what difference does it make? Some of RF's most helpful members never paid, and some really useless troll paid. None of us over there cared.

Being a RF member gave us 100mb webspace, a cheap sticker, hidden IP address, and a little red circle next to our usernames. I paid for membership ONLY FOR the webspace. Ironically, I never used the 100mb, but I left it because it was a small price to pay, and I justified the expense to myself because I was 'helping out' a board I frequented many times daily.

Here on Rennlist, it's the same deal, except we don't get hidden IPs (to my knowledge) and we don't get webspace. Here, the ONLY reason I bought membership was to be able to post classified ads. Again, ironically, I posted exactly one ad and the item never sold through here. Oh well. Maybe I'm shallow, but this board has ads and sponsors, and I don't think it's appropriate to 'guilt-trip' people into paying money to read a message board.

 

If you will let a non-Porsche-owning, non-Rennlist-paying lurker speak his mind for a moment...

This is the only of half-dozen or so boards I read/participate on that even has the option of being a paying member. Many have sponsorships, and if you advertise your product on the board you are expected to become one or you will lose the advertising priviledge. I can even understand stretching that to the classifieds, since someone is making some money through the hard work of others. But when posters berate each other into paying $14 or whatever it is a year, it is really heavyhanded and detracts A LOT from the quality of the board, IMO. Honestly, the people who brag about their multiple accounts in their signatures seem kind of ridiculous too; you wouldn't put how much money you donated to the Red Cross or your Alma Mater in your profile, why brag about this? When you are that public about it, it makes your motives seem questionable.

I'm fairly certain if running this board was becoming a financial burden, the organizers would let people know. If they wanted this to be a business and turn a profit, they'd charge everyone. But they don't. So when a new poster comes on and asks a question about a Porsche, and regulars (members) start to harrass him about becoming a member, what sort of image does that portray to him about the marque? I'm willing to bet the kind of person who will search the web and discuss Porsches online is the type of enthusiast you do want to attract (as opposed to the poseur who buys his car for the status), and then you inadvertantly try to run him off with elitism. I own (stock) Japanese cars, and participate in some of those message boards, so I am well aware of the online asshattery that is not present here. But the snobbery that is present in the "why aren't you a member?" posts/threads is a big black mark on an otherwise excellant board.

So support the board if it's important to you. If you think the membership fee is so trivial and that someone is screwing the organizers by not paying for theirs, just pay yours twice. But then STFU about it, because complaining makes it not about the board, but about your own feelings on how the board should be run, and most of us don't get to make that decision.


Disclaimer: this is not intended to be a response to any person or forum in particular, but rather to address a relatively common vibe on the board.

-Chris

 

What really bothers me, though, now that I've heard some excellent viewpoints, is the notion that maybe our membership dues are doing much more than defraying the cost of running this site. Maybe it's adding to the coffers of the organizers in the form of a handsome profit. And all the while we continue to experience periods of excruciatingly slow response times that often render this site practically useless. The only reason I try to encourage membership is my belief that adequate resources are not available, because the funds are not. If that's not the case then I certainly don’t want to be badgering anyone into becoming a paying member if it's not going to make the throughput situation any better. I'm sure many of us members are under the same belief that more revenue will lead to faster response times. If that's not necessarily true, then where's the value in being a member? Certainly not in having the special designation that often leads to discriminatory behavior, as has been noted here.

What I would like to see is a detailed income statement showing where our dues dollars are being spent. I think we paying members are entitled to that, don't you? If not an income statement then a simple pie chart will do. ... If being a paid member is not going to make a difference one way or the other in the performance of this site, then I can do without the bragging rights.

 

As I understand it, costs to run these sites are covered primarily by advertising/sponsors/partnerships/etc. Sites are able to obtain these advertisers/sponsors by demonstrating a certain amount of traffic. By insisting on membership, the majority of the traffic will disappear. So, just by posting/contributing, we are all making the site bigger and better. If I'm wrong about this, I'm sure somebody will correct me.

Call me cheap, but if something is free, I won't pay for it. If something requires payment to enjoy, I'll weigh the benefit and make a decision. Personally, I've responded to infinitely more posts than I've started on this and other boards, so I wouldn't pay to use any web forum. Besides the fact that I shouldn't waste so much time on the internet anyway.

 

I think I agree with that. There are only 2 reasons to pay for a membership: 1) to cover the costs of running and upgrading the board, and/or 2) to get extra features (like a signature, or picture space, etc). Otherwise, you are just throwing money away and/or creating a clique of "members"