PSE
07-22-2005, 05:27 PM
#16
Miserable Old Bastard
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Originally Posted by DD694
I think not.
The PSE has two exhaust outlet pipes from each muffler. Each pipe goes to one of the two outlets of the new chrome tip supplied with the PSE. The stock S exhaust tips only allow for ONE exhaust pipe from the muffler.
The PSE has two exhaust outlet pipes from each muffler. Each pipe goes to one of the two outlets of the new chrome tip supplied with the PSE. The stock S exhaust tips only allow for ONE exhaust pipe from the muffler.
Last edited by jcnesq; 07-23-2005 at 01:27 AM.
07-22-2005, 06:32 PM
#17
Originally Posted by jcnesq
Not true - there is only one exhaust outlet pipe on each muffler. In fact the PSE chrome "dual" tips are kind of a joke because one of the two pipes is a complete dummy (no function) and the other pipe gets all of the exhaust.
So your saying the valve acts to provide only a resonator on the second outlet pipe from the muffler?
07-22-2005, 06:54 PM
#18
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When I clean my car, I find both the exhaust tips of my PSE are equally dirty from the smoke and oil both inside and the chrome inferior borderof the tips... if one the would be a dummy, I would think it would remain much cleaner and no exhaust deposits.
07-22-2005, 07:03 PM
#19
This photo of a new car with factory installed PSE shows only the outer exhaust outlet coated with exhaust residue. This could easily be because PSE had not yet been turned ON for any length of time. With PSE OFF all exhaust would go through outer exhaust outlets only.
07-22-2005, 07:12 PM
#20
I just checked my 997S with PSE ON full-time at idle and I can feel exhaust coming out of BOTH outer and inner exhaust outlets. If this is true at idle, I have no reason to believe that it is different at any other speed. This reinforces my comment in the above post with photo of a new 997 with PSE.
07-22-2005, 07:22 PM
#21
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I think you are right Bill, thats probably it as I have PSE "on" all the time (permanently) and both are equally dirty always.
You can clearly see the inner pipe dirty as well around the bottom border in this angle of my car:
You can clearly see the inner pipe dirty as well around the bottom border in this angle of my car:
07-22-2005, 11:23 PM
#22
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After talking to several Porsche parts depts. today, it seems that the PSE kit comes with the chrome tips, and the going discounted price is $1804. plus the switch and installation. Only problem is so far only Braman Porsche has a set in stock and they have them on Ebay for $2400. I'll order a set and wait 4 weeks for $600. I've been quoted $900 by a N. CA dealer to install the exhaust and wire up the switch. Seems the wiring part is fairly complicated or time consuming. Do you think it's worth the extra labor expense ($400-500) to have the system hooked up to a switch?
07-23-2005, 12:08 AM
#23
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Well, now I am totally confused, and I guess I screwed up in my comments above. I just went and looked under my car and I see two pipes coming from the exhaust and using both sides of the tips. Unfortunately I can't see the whole system, but it sure looks like both tips are in use and both are dirty (I'm open all the time, no switch). Since the picture above shows one pipe clean, I have to guess that in a fully installed system, in sport mode that activates a separate exhaust line to the tips.
Below is a pic of the 997 PSE system as I purchased it from Braman Porsche. Now I see two exhaust pipes!
I had put Fabspeeds on for a few days, and they clearly have only one exit pipe. Then when I unpacked the PSE, stupid me thought there was one exhaust pipe so that one of the two pipes on the tips was a dummy - guess I'm the dummy!
When I was purchasing the PSE, my dealer quoted something like $2,031 as list price, but they did not have any in stock. Brandywine's price was $1,800, but they had no stock; I asked about the tips and they said they were not included. So I bought from Braman for $2,450, thinking that I was also paying for overpriced tips. However, now that I am sorting this out, it is becoming very clear to me that the tips have to be included with the system because the stock tips wouldn't work. If that's true, then I got totally ripped off by Braman, charging me far more than list price. To boot, Braman shipped them UPS poorly packed, and when my dealer received them (I had them shipped to my dealer for convenience) both mufflers had several dents in the cans - not enough to affect function but annoying, and Braman told me I would have to make a claim against UPS. I think I am starting to get pissed off!
Below is a pic of the 997 PSE system as I purchased it from Braman Porsche. Now I see two exhaust pipes!
I had put Fabspeeds on for a few days, and they clearly have only one exit pipe. Then when I unpacked the PSE, stupid me thought there was one exhaust pipe so that one of the two pipes on the tips was a dummy - guess I'm the dummy!
When I was purchasing the PSE, my dealer quoted something like $2,031 as list price, but they did not have any in stock. Brandywine's price was $1,800, but they had no stock; I asked about the tips and they said they were not included. So I bought from Braman for $2,450, thinking that I was also paying for overpriced tips. However, now that I am sorting this out, it is becoming very clear to me that the tips have to be included with the system because the stock tips wouldn't work. If that's true, then I got totally ripped off by Braman, charging me far more than list price. To boot, Braman shipped them UPS poorly packed, and when my dealer received them (I had them shipped to my dealer for convenience) both mufflers had several dents in the cans - not enough to affect function but annoying, and Braman told me I would have to make a claim against UPS. I think I am starting to get pissed off!
Last edited by jcnesq; 07-23-2005 at 01:14 AM.
07-23-2005, 12:21 AM
#24
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SamG: The "book time" for PSE install is 3.3 hours with Sport Chrono, and 4.4 hours without Sport Chrono (this is from the PSE install TSB, which is on renntech if you are a member). My dealer told me the book hours are BS and that typically they double the book time. So your quote sounds in the ballpark, but maybe a little high.
I did not install the "switch." First because I like them open all the time, and find it easy enough to take it easy on the gas if I am trying to be "quiet", and I wanted to save a few bucks. However, I also did not like the fact that with Sport Chrono, you have to be in Sport mode to have the exhaust wide open and, in addition, if its wired up it automatically goes into quiet mode between roughly 30-50mph. In the 996 [I had PSE also but didn't wire it in my prior 996] there was an easy hack to cut a wire in the control module (that plugs in in the fuse box) that disabled the 30-50mph quiet mode, but in the 997 there is no control module - its all controlled by the car's computer and I don't think there is any way to disable the 30-50mph quiet mode.
I did not install the "switch." First because I like them open all the time, and find it easy enough to take it easy on the gas if I am trying to be "quiet", and I wanted to save a few bucks. However, I also did not like the fact that with Sport Chrono, you have to be in Sport mode to have the exhaust wide open and, in addition, if its wired up it automatically goes into quiet mode between roughly 30-50mph. In the 996 [I had PSE also but didn't wire it in my prior 996] there was an easy hack to cut a wire in the control module (that plugs in in the fuse box) that disabled the 30-50mph quiet mode, but in the 997 there is no control module - its all controlled by the car's computer and I don't think there is any way to disable the 30-50mph quiet mode.
07-23-2005, 01:36 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by jcnesq
SamG: The "book time" for PSE install is 3.3 hours with Sport Chrono, and 4.4 hours without Sport Chrono (this is from the PSE install TSB, which is on renntech if you are a member). My dealer told me the book hours are BS and that typically they double the book time. So your quote sounds in the ballpark, but maybe a little high.
I did not install the "switch." First because I like them open all the time, and find it easy enough to take it easy on the gas if I am trying to be "quiet", and I wanted to save a few bucks. However, I also did not like the fact that with Sport Chrono, you have to be in Sport mode to have the exhaust wide open and, in addition, if its wired up it automatically goes into quiet mode between roughly 30-50mph. In the 996 [I had PSE also but didn't wire it in my prior 996] there was an easy hack to cut a wire in the control module (that plugs in in the fuse box) that disabled the 30-50mph quiet mode, but in the 997 there is no control module - its all controlled by the car's computer and I don't think there is any way to disable the 30-50mph quiet mode.
I did not install the "switch." First because I like them open all the time, and find it easy enough to take it easy on the gas if I am trying to be "quiet", and I wanted to save a few bucks. However, I also did not like the fact that with Sport Chrono, you have to be in Sport mode to have the exhaust wide open and, in addition, if its wired up it automatically goes into quiet mode between roughly 30-50mph. In the 996 [I had PSE also but didn't wire it in my prior 996] there was an easy hack to cut a wire in the control module (that plugs in in the fuse box) that disabled the 30-50mph quiet mode, but in the 997 there is no control module - its all controlled by the car's computer and I don't think there is any way to disable the 30-50mph quiet mode.
07-23-2005, 02:08 AM
#26
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Alan: While in general I think its "comparable", the 997S sounded much better stock than 996 stock, and I think with PSE it probably sounds a little better than 996 with PSE. (I also have the Fabspeed cold air kit, which made a noticeable sound difference with the stock exhaust - but I have no comparison with / without Fabspeed cold air kit on a PSE car.)
07-23-2005, 03:02 AM
#27
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Jim, I just had my PSE installed on Monday and made the mod to have it on all the time. Boy, does it sound loud! But I agree with your earlier statement, if I want it to sound quieter, I just get less aggressive on the throttle.
07-23-2005, 03:04 AM
#28
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Alan - with my 996, the sound definitely mellowed out after a month or so. I've had PSE on the 997S for a couple weeks now, and while I'm not sure, I think it may be mellowing a little (not that that's necessarily good!).
07-23-2005, 03:23 AM
#29
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Carlos, it seem like your PSE exhaust tips are angled slightly off-center. See my picture for reference. I.e., the inner tips are higher than the outer tips on yours.
07-23-2005, 07:06 AM
#30
Alan, out of curiosity if you placed a straight edge across the tops of each tip would they be perfectly level? My PSE manufactured on 5/05 the inner tip is about 2-3 mm higher than the outer one (minimal). I think there will be some variations between each system produced as Eismann probably hand makes each one. If both of your tips are dead level then Porsche has altered the original look of PSE. As far as sound levels go, when I first crank up the car (completely cold) it sounds like it did a month ago (installation date), but after a few blocks of driving it seems to loose its edge but only at very low RPM's. All my tips are equally dark so all 4 are "on" all the time. Tooner, I am real curious about this back pressure theory and the flaps? I already know about the decibal level restrictions in Europe but could there be more to it? You could be on to something but I sure cannot tell the difference as my cars powerband feels the same (just sounds better). Keep us posted.