Breakin period over!!
01-28-2005, 06:53 PM
#76
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The best advice is to stay the hell away from the dealer at all costs!!! These guys are scary...
The reality is that most major car companies have their manuals written by attorney's...................Get it...................It al boils down to $$$$$$$$$$ and lawsuits........HELLO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The reality is that most major car companies have their manuals written by attorney's...................Get it...................It al boils down to $$$$$$$$$$ and lawsuits........HELLO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
01-28-2005, 07:32 PM
#77
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Alan: My observation was merely another suggestion to look at this question. I needed a good number of miles for "break-in driver" period. I can't speak for what manufacturer's request or how they come up with the requirements.
And Robert, you're certainly onto something!
And Robert, you're certainly onto something!
01-28-2005, 07:52 PM
#78
Race Car
Repeat! There is no need to spend 10 million engine revolutions to break in any engine. Duh! Some people will fall for anything and most of them don't even know where the air cleaner is. If you want to encourage problems, then by all means, baby the car. The rest of us will bounce off the rev limiter every chance we get.
If you want everything, as is said "to properly seat" you sure aren't going to accomplish this by keeping it below 4200 rpm. As a matter of fact, it encourages burning oil. You need the FULL heat range of the engine over and over again to properly anneal the cylinder components. But, that is just my experience having owned 37 cars and rebuilding more than a dozen engines from the bottom up.
If you want everything, as is said "to properly seat" you sure aren't going to accomplish this by keeping it below 4200 rpm. As a matter of fact, it encourages burning oil. You need the FULL heat range of the engine over and over again to properly anneal the cylinder components. But, that is just my experience having owned 37 cars and rebuilding more than a dozen engines from the bottom up.
01-28-2005, 08:21 PM
#79
Originally Posted by Robert Santangelo
The best advice is to stay the hell away from the dealer at all costs!!! These guys are scary...
The reality is that most major car companies have their manuals written by attorney's...................Get it...................It al boils down to $$$$$$$$$$ and lawsuits........HELLO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The reality is that most major car companies have their manuals written by attorney's...................Get it...................It al boils down to $$$$$$$$$$ and lawsuits........HELLO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
thats why the USA gets different manuals etc with different wording etc.
also why the USA misses out on alot of things, cars, features, etc. i wont get into details.
also reminds me of a manufactuer (forget which) who used 1000 miles as a break in, and found alot of people got about half way, and started punching it. so they changed the break in procedure to 2000 knowing most people would go halfway...
go figure.
GT3 / Turbo break in - 1000 miles
other 996, 2000.... hmm
01-29-2005, 09:09 AM
#80
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Originally Posted by Alan Smithee
For those who subscribe to the notion that manufacturers' break-in periods are for the driver and not the car, could you explain why every BMW E46 M3 that is currently undergoing connecting rod bearing replacement is subject to the same break-in period recommended for the car when it was new? I find it hard to believe after three years and 36k miles I need to very slowly become familiar with my car again.
01-29-2005, 07:12 PM
#81
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Skunk Workz
Reason you have to baby it again? Easy. If you replace something as crucial as rod bearings,and they tell you "No break-in needed...just go out and flog it at your wish"...then they give the game away,by telling you that the engine doesn't need to be broken in...EVEN with new bearings!!
01-29-2005, 10:15 PM
#82
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Originally Posted by Alan Smithee
Um, yeah, that makes a lot of sense
Bearings have a coating on them when new...this you can easily wipe off with a paper towel. Why,if the bearings get "broken in",is it then so that after a few thousand miles,if you dismantle an engine...why is the coating still there? Because it has never touched the crank,due to the lube. That's why. Disprove it,if you can / want to.
01-30-2005, 02:19 PM
#83
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I went through my break-in period today and started going beyond the 4200 rpm threshold. I must say I woke up Mr.Hyde...the car is a bullet! I'm happy for having followed the break-in period, even if the main reason could only be justified by a "break-in driver" period.
Last edited by zacharie; 02-01-2005 at 07:11 AM.
02-08-2005, 04:58 AM
#84
Burning Brakes
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Here is an explanation of why you SHOULD NOT do a break-in.. at least the way the manufacturer suggests. The major factor is the way the piston rings work, and this gives an EXCELLENT description of what is going on and why high rpms are NECESSARY for a healthy engines! :
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
I bought my wrx new in 02 and was at redline upon leaving the dealership. No, it's not a Porsche, but it's a boxer nontheless
. Anyway, I am at 34k miles now, and I NEVER burn oil and have never had any problems whatsoever with my car. Conversely, many people on message boards talk about burning a quart or more between fill-ups even though they did a "proper" break-in. It seems that in the time I was on the wrx message boards, everyone who ran their cars thru the rpm range right off the bat didn't burn any oil, and those that did stayed in low rpms, and never seated the rings properly.
Also, when I was about 17(around 1986), my dad and I completely rebuilt my Cutlass 350 engine - had it machined, bored out, new cam.. everything.. then when we had it together he told me to drive it hard and "don't baby it". Well, after many many fast miles on that car as a teen, I heard when I went back home that the guy who owns it now is running it at the local dragstrip (in a different body now though) and hasn't had any major problems with the engine.
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
I bought my wrx new in 02 and was at redline upon leaving the dealership. No, it's not a Porsche, but it's a boxer nontheless
. Anyway, I am at 34k miles now, and I NEVER burn oil and have never had any problems whatsoever with my car. Conversely, many people on message boards talk about burning a quart or more between fill-ups even though they did a "proper" break-in. It seems that in the time I was on the wrx message boards, everyone who ran their cars thru the rpm range right off the bat didn't burn any oil, and those that did stayed in low rpms, and never seated the rings properly.Also, when I was about 17(around 1986), my dad and I completely rebuilt my Cutlass 350 engine - had it machined, bored out, new cam.. everything.. then when we had it together he told me to drive it hard and "don't baby it". Well, after many many fast miles on that car as a teen, I heard when I went back home that the guy who owns it now is running it at the local dragstrip (in a different body now though) and hasn't had any major problems with the engine.
02-08-2005, 02:20 PM
#85
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I don't get it. If this guy from mototuneusa is such a genius why doesn't he get a contract with car manufacturers to re-write the whole break-in procedure? Who am I going to trust? him or the Porsche recommendations? What's the point of telling me the break-in time period lasts the first 20 miles when I buy a car with already 26 miles on it? And does he really think I'm going to flush the factory oil from scratch to fill some petroleum oil in it and run the car like hell for 2 days and so on? He should be a billionaire at the time with such good recommendations. Really he should do something for that if he knows the whole damn thing about break in procedures. Just don't stay on the internet, go and spread the word in the real world, facing real people, real engineers, real car makers and Call me stupid if you like.
Last edited by zacharie; 02-08-2005 at 02:36 PM.
02-08-2005, 07:11 PM
#86
Burning Brakes
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"..go and spread the word in the real world, facing real people, real engineers, real car makers and Call me stupid if you like."
That's exactly what he is doing. His word has gotten around all over the place, and it isn't just HIM saying it, it is many, many engine builders and apparantly even people from the dealerships. Do you doubt what he is saying? How do piston rings work then- how do they seal properly- if they don't work the way he explains? What exactly is it about what he said that makes you think it is inaccurate?
That's exactly what he is doing. His word has gotten around all over the place, and it isn't just HIM saying it, it is many, many engine builders and apparantly even people from the dealerships. Do you doubt what he is saying? How do piston rings work then- how do they seal properly- if they don't work the way he explains? What exactly is it about what he said that makes you think it is inaccurate?
02-08-2005, 09:10 PM
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El Torrente : Pat isn't exactly poor....his shop MototuneUSA made roadracing bikes that blew the factory away at Daytona,with a YZF-R6 (600 cc) doing 174mph on the straights...the factory riders said that it was impossible to keep up with it,and they even filed a complaint on his engines not being built to regulations. But they where. He's currently traveling the world working as a "freelance" (well paid,they say) engine builder for professional RR-teams.
If that break-in procedure was wrong,it should hurt the engine and it should make less power due to the scuffing and "bearing contact"-friction..but it made over 6 hp more to the wheel than the most kick-a$$ factory bikes....and I've seen that particular engine dismantled after 2 years of high-speed RR. It had NO MARKS on the pistons indicating any blowby past the rings at all. Leakdown before dismantling it (for a check-up,it had not blown up) was 0.6%...anyone ever seen a "factory-procedure-breaked-in" engine doing the leakdown? If you have under 5% that's really good...
If that break-in procedure was wrong,it should hurt the engine and it should make less power due to the scuffing and "bearing contact"-friction..but it made over 6 hp more to the wheel than the most kick-a$$ factory bikes....and I've seen that particular engine dismantled after 2 years of high-speed RR. It had NO MARKS on the pistons indicating any blowby past the rings at all. Leakdown before dismantling it (for a check-up,it had not blown up) was 0.6%...anyone ever seen a "factory-procedure-breaked-in" engine doing the leakdown? If you have under 5% that's really good...
