Adrian Fuller

UK spec for all 911s includes full leather

But we do pay £ 60,000 for base model dont we.

Carerra III alloys are 18"

The 19" "Carrera" alloys are referred to as Carrera Classic

All clear now ?

Chris C.

RonCT wrote: "How hard would it have been to make 18s standard with a 19 upgrade? How hard to recognize us track guys and say "Sunroof = $1,000 option"

While I agree you should be able to order your car as you like it, and that the dealer should swap you 18s for your 19s at no charge--it may actually cost them more to build you a car without a sunroof. Production lines are designed to run certain builds en masse. Special orders cause extra work and cost.

I think it's great that you guys like the base Carrera better! If the 3.8 and additional options, and the wider body, aren't of value for you, you win! (read: save a bunch of $/smile).

I like the way the 19s ride, want the 3.8 and wider flares...and am willing to pay more for those options.

infestation

As JasonF points out, full leather is optional on both models; however, on the launch cars, the S came with full leather, whereas the seal gray base models didn't. That was one of the reasons why I went with the S, in addition to all of the other goodies it had.

Still not sure about the ceramics. Their performance is great but you do have to be careful with them in wet weather--keep that in mind.

infestation

One more thing to add--the 19" wheels do provide a very rough ride and that's without hitting the sport button. Some of the roads just suck here in the DFW area. But, I love it. And when I feel like having some fun, I hit the sport button.

RonCT

I agree, it costs them more to have 2 different ways to do the top. My point is that no sunroof is "normal" and should be standard. If they built no sunroof, it would cost them zero - stamp the roof, weld it on. It's when they cut out the roof hole, put in the wiring, the motor, sliding roof, etc. that you get into expense. So, my point was this - have those people who want the extra feature to pay for it and drop the base price accordingly. Using the "no roof" as zero, it might cost Porsche $400 to make the roof, they charge the retailer $750, and it retails for $1,000. This is how Audi, BMW, Benz, and the rest do it.

It just feels like an insult to delete the sunroof for guys like me that track (need the headroom for the helmet) and give zero credit.

The wheels - can't complain too much here. They decided to give the mass market what they want (marketing department says 19 and 20" wheels are cool now). My point was that Porsche is starting to lose the enthusiast market. I'm sensing the beginning of the end (saw this coming with BMW long ago). It's a Sports Car with... 19" wheels that are inferior performance-wise to 18s, a motorized sunroof that adds weight up top (if you want the sun, you can pay for a sunroof or get a ragtop - leave the stiffer lighter coupe to the enthusiasts), an automate-everything computer screen, a gimmick stop watch. Yes, I'm being ridiculous to make a point. To me, here's how the new 997 should be outfitted (not that we can change it - this is a discussion board...):

No sunroof standard, you want them to cut a hole in the top, pay the price.
18" light weight forged wheels, 19" optional.
Manual climate control with option for automatic (give me the 3 dials).
Computer screen only comes with optional GPS (I'd not get it).
Sport suspension (PASM optional in both 997 models).
Xenons optional in both cars - I've had them, don't want them again.
Allow the above on the 997s - so we can have the engine and brakes.

That way everyone gets what they want without feeling like Porsche left their niche behind. Guys like me that want a light uncomplicated car that's happy on the track can get it as I outlined. Those that want a softer ride for the street, but might want to stiffen up for the track can get PASM. Track junkies are gonig to throw away the oem suspension anyway... Those that want more style can get 19" wheels. If you are into technology, you can get the automatic systems and GPS. I'm in favor of it all - I love it when people can get what they want and be happy with their car.

ringmeister

Sounds like you want a GT3.

mooty

ronCT, i agree with most everything you said. however, can you elaborate on why you don't like xenon?

Moogle

i can't imagine why anyone would not want xenon in their car.

i can understand that it sometimes blinds oncoming drivers, but honestly, thats not a reason to stick with arcane halogen bulbs.

like i said before, threads like these sound like they are made by people who are trying to rationalize buying the base versus the S, or not buying certain options

when the real reason is $$$. no i don't care about political correctness, why can't people just say what they are REALLY thinking.

munro86

Archaic/Arcane

AeroGT3RedWing

"i can understand that it sometimes blinds oncoming drivers, but honestly, thats not a reason to stick with arcane halogen bulbs."

Are you the only driver on the road?

"like i said before, threads like these sound like they are made by people who are trying to rationalize buying the base versus the S, or not buying certain options"

I don't think that's the case. I, who am not at all in the market for a 997, would take the base model over the S regardless of price.

"when the real reason is $$$. no i don't care about political correctness, why can't people just say what they are REALLY thinking."

I am REALLY thinking your posts on this topic have made you look like a total ******* by diminishing people's personal preferences and replacing the motives behind them with a desire to be cheap. Some people actually care about how their behavior on the road affects other drivers. I for one would prefer not to blind other drivers, cut them off, etc. You seem to be the inverse. I think we can all agree of which we'de rather see more of on the roads . . .

AeroGT3RedWing

I agree with RonCT wholeheartedly. I'de pay MORE for the base model simply becaause:
The base model doesn't have PASM; i want to be able to change suspension set ups for track use. Good luck with switching with PASM . . .
19" wheels DECREASE performance.
I prefer Mechanical engineering to electical engineering.
I don't believe everything porsche says and recognize that the S's proclaimed superiority over the base is more marketing than anything else.
It would take much more work to make the S a serious track car than it would the base, given PASM, the bling wheels, etc.

husky

there is a no cost option (only in s model) to change the PASM to sport suspension lower by 20mm which is designed for track use but only injunction with 19" and manual shift

http://content2.us.porsche.com/prod/...c=carreras.nsf

caf

I also dislike xenon lighting; but it has more to do with the modern lighting systems than the xenon itself (I have both xenon and halogen lighting in my home fleet).

As bulbs have become progressively brighter, projector systems have been devised to more sharply limit the beam to avoid blinding oncoming drivers. The result is that while the beam is very bright in a forward direction, the available light drops off to almost nothing outside the designated pattern. While older systems had a gradual drop-off in lighting intensity outside the pattern, the drop-off is very abrupt in xenon systems particularly. This leaves the driver with VERY little light available to spot joggers, deer, etc. outside the pattern. It also creates a bad situation when one nears the bottom of a dip in the road--the beams are pointed downward, and the sharp cut-offs mean there is almost no light at all pointing up the hill, where one should be looking at that point. Furthermore, the the wild fluctuations in intensity of the lights of oncoming cars as they bounce around on uneven roads is irritating.

Again, the problem is not xenon per se, it's that lighting systems have not yet been perfected to solve these problems. I think many people that buy xenon now buy them because they think the blue cast of the light is cool; if xenons had been invented first it would be the amazing, pure white light of halogens that would be cool. Personally, although xenons have an advantage in brightness, especially on high beam, I prefer the whiter light of halogens.

RonCT

Moogle - you just don't have a clue... To imply that I (and others) don't have the $$$ to buy a 997S and am trying to justify my position because of it... Unbelievable. I can afford to buy any car that is made. Pick any exotic and I can pay cash, yes, even an Enzo (If you're an Enzo fan, I can email you photos of me in an Enzo, F50, 360CS, etc. - took them last weekend with my friend who owns them). I've never posted information like this (what I can and can't afford is my business), but I'm making an exception so that perhaps you and others gain a better understanding of what makes various people tick. At this forum you probably do have people who are stretching their budgets to get a stripped down base 997. I say "Fantastic - enjoy the great car - can't make a bad decision with any 997...". There are others that have net worths in the tens of millions. You can't generalize when you don't know the situation.

The reality here is that I know what I want and that is a naturally aspirated (rules out the Turbo my dealer was trying to talk me into), rear wheel drive sporty coupe that I can comfortably drive around town every day. I don't want it to think for me - I want to be in control and be able to anticipate what the car is doing (thus no i-drive, xenons that move up and down, left and right, adapting steering or suspension, etc.). I don't need or want a trick suspension (pick one and stick with it, may modify it for the track), I want to shift for myself, I don't need or want the sunlight beating down on my head (if I did, I'd get a cabriolet), I need helmet room (so no sunroof), etc.

Regarding xenons. They add weight and electronic complication. I'm irritated when somebody is coming at me at night with them on (why do they have the fogs on all the time too?) and so I'm sensitive to people I might be blinding. I've had them myself (BMW M3 weekend loaner before ordering my M3) and found no improvement to my night vision with them, in fact coverage was worse (you may have different results - I'm 41 and wear weak glasses for distance - age and eye condition may be a factor). What I did with my latest M3 is replace the bulbs with improved ones and am very happy with that solution.

Now Moogle, before you go off about "If Ron can afford anything...then why is he driving an M3..." the reasons are many, but mostly it's what I wanted at that point in my life (2 years into a 3 year business lease). I'm rather "young" to be driving a Ferrari or Porsche, so the BMW. I have many employees that I don't want to see me in such a car - it serves nothing to throw my success in their faces. I spend a lot of time around town and don't need people talking. Why am I planning to order a 997 for Euro delivery next Fall? Because I'm slipping into early retirement and won't be as concerned about the "street talk". I've also been easing people into this - 328Ci to M3 to 997. You may ask why I should care - well, I've built a very successful business from nothing and my 6th sense says to stay conservative and understated. The M3 fit my needs perfectly at the time - back seat for my 2 kids, plenty of trunk space for going down to our beach house, understated, etc. I'm also not a person to hide a car and only take it out certain times - if I'm going to get a Ferrari or Porsche, I'm going to drive it daily, in the rain, on the track, etc. The Ferraris are too tempermental and "look at me" for my tastes.

So, I really like the 997 option. Just wish they "decontented" the two models more for the enthusiasts and let people who want options to add them.

RonCT

You know, that's probably correct. I should just wait for the 997 GT3 and get what I really want. The only thing is I want to drive it every day and for that the GT3 is going to be rough. I also like the traction control "back stop" - just in case - on street driving in the rain, sandy roads (here in CT all spring), etc.

It's strange, but I really prefer a 1-car-fits-most vehicle instead of having a street car and a track car. Can't really explain it - just the way I'm wired.