Coupla comments....

Does PASM suck. No. A newb to this community may read all of this and assume the system is not good. It is fine IMO. When folks want to make something better, you have to question their value system. There is no doubt you can change the Porsche system to be better for your particular likes and needs, but again, what is that value system? For me, my 2009 S with PASM was not a ride I thought was all that great. I felt it banged and crashed when it should be smoother. The ride, to me, was harsh but not in what I thought was a refined sports car ride. You will never know what I mean by that unless what I just wrote is what you feel too. So I installed the DSC controller which made life far better and with my further tweaks, I feel really good with my suspension set up.

What should you do if you don't like PASM? Well I have always recommended the cheapest and easist change is the DSC controller... it snaps in with about 15 minutes of work, can quickly be restored with another 15 minutes of work, and your investment can be nearly recovered on the used market. Sounds too good to be true but it is. Next steps if you still are unhappy, is to start replacing parts. This, to me, is expensive for all kinds of reasons... but is the typical track for many who are unhappy with the ride. I never went there because the DSC was the solution for me.

What new system should you consider? I don't know... but I would start with understanding how you will use the car and what kind of experience you want. Is it faster lap times at Summit Point? Dealing with your crappy roads? Do you just want to look cool with a slammed ride? I can't help anyone beyond this. A mistake is to start with an open question like "How can I make it better" then start assembling parts.

Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)

 

Thanks for your comments, Bruce. I think it's clear that the DSC controller is an great value-add for a PASM-equipped car. I also agree that it's a mistake to throw parts together *****-nilly. However, there's nothing wrong with asking an open question, although to me, a more fundamental and important question is 'what did the factory engineers have in mind when they made certain design choices?' Only then can we safely ask 'how can I make it better?' I always aim to understand - through driving, measuring, listening to an owner's comments - what the essential components in a suspension are doing before I start changing those components.

Your comment here - "when folks want to make something better, you have to question their value system" - has provided much fuel for thought. More than likely, I will start a thread in either this forum or more likely the 997 Turbo forum where Rig.Stunts can post him opinions about the setup I did for his 997 Turbo. I'll include as much data and analysis as I can to explain what I think Porsche values (based on their design choices) and what I value. Then, anyone reading can decide where their values are in our pursuit of understanding and achieving something 'better' without making a mistake and getting a worse result.

Cheers,
Shaikh

 

'what did the factory engineers have in mind when they made certain design choices?'

Yea, I thought the exact same thing when I purchased my 09 S. I had driven and was a passenger in many different Porsches and was never unhappy with the experience of stock setups until I got my '09 S. To me, I just thought the engineers ran out of time. I almost purchased an '09 base and liked that setup. I really think Porsche blew it with the '09 and given the DSC controller's improvement which shows the system could have been better, I just thought Porsche goofed. It just wasn't tuned properly and it could have been done with software. The '09 S system just seemed... off their game. But then again, what is my value system? Am I just not a real sports car enthusiast? I don't think so but of course I don't think so.

As I understand Porsche's motives, is that their cars are tuned/designed to be a balance of performance and everyday usage... at least for base and S models. When you buy another "performance" model like a GT3, the buyer expects a more track-oriented focus. If all of this is true, then IMO, Porsche blew it with the '09 S PASM tune.

Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)

 

I haven't seen it in the tuning software but ...

Newer cars have shock speed feedback.

We have the 3 axis accelerometer. It would seem to me that the z axis accelerometer could be used to determine shock direction and adjust compression and rebound individually. I find this to be the missing component. But maybe the oem shocks aren't fast enough to do this.

 

Hey Bruce, 09 C2S w/ PASM - I have a full set of stock shocks/struts just sitting in my shed in a plastic tub. I found someone selling a pretty much new Billstein set w/ Eibach springs that I tossed on. The OEM stuff was taken off at around 75k miles last summer. I didn't find any leaks or issues when I took them off other than the bump stops and bearings were pretty well shot, but everything else was fine. I re-used the metal top hats, but should have everything else. Happy to take some photos if you are still looking for a set and are interested. No idea what they are worth but feel free to make me an offer. I'm in Cleveland (for shipping).

 

@Rig.Stunts Do you hear a high frequency buzz (~1 kHz) in the turns with your DSC/Tractive setup? I've heard this from others.

 

No I did not have that noise with any of my controllers, or my full Ford setup.

Many other issues with the Focus RS, as I was an early adopter . . . possibly the third install in NA

 

@Shaikh at Fat Cat Motorsports I think we might have a friend in common (KR with the Morgan, son with Miata). Back then, I don't thing you were working with Porsches yet (?).

I wish I'd read this thread a few weeks earlier. My base 997.1 (PASM) has 172k miles on the OE suspension and I'm finally updating it with DSC/B16 Damptronics next week (trying to get to a GTS-like tuning and ride height). I'd hate to gut the PASM suspension right after putting it in.

Your conversation with Carol (YouTube) is compelling, especially the simultaneous street and track performance of her car. The Ripple Reducer is very interesting.

This probably goes against your design philosophy, but is there anything you can do to improve the DSC/B16 combination? For example, can you put in a shorter/softer bump stop in the B16s and tweak up the sways? Maybe further tune the DSC? Or is this just trying to turn a sow's ear (okay, maybe not quite a sow's ear) into a silk purse?

Or... I suppose I could resell the new DSC/B16 parts still in the box here on Rennlist?

I avoided the changeover to a passive suspension because: (1) car already had active PASM suspension, which seemed to outperform the OEM passive suspension out of the box, and (2) I couldn't find anyone on the Bay Area Peninsula with the expertise to tune a passive suspension without a lot of trial-and-error and guesswork. If I had a better garage for wrenching, I'd be more willing to trial-and-error.

Your scientific measurement-based approach could be a game-changer.

There's still a little time for me to switch horses from the DSC/B16 to something passive.

 

Thanks. I've only heard this on two recent DSC/Tractive installs. Other recent installs (same shop) were fine. Last I heard, Tractive was stumped by this. All hearsay, but a reliable source.

 

Yes, we do have KR & son as friends in common. Oh, the M3W! Adventures in bump steer!

Let's speak soon and plan to meet for a test drive/ride. I am confident you would be able to have cake and eat it as well via my approach. 996love seemed rather impressed with Christina's ride and handling capabilities. I'm much more comfortable working w Porsches now; the past several years I've been optimizing more German than Japanese sports cars.