2009 C2S 174K miles

In short, I like the PS2 N4 tires way better on my car than the 4S. Even though the 4S wins all the accolades in test after test, I like the PS2 N4 tires way more. Important: I am not disputing the tests nor am I totally sold on the N rating. Another big point: I moved from 19" rims to 18" Porsche rims and even with the taller sidewall, the PS2 tires are more precise.

Why I like the PS2 N4 tires over the 4S tires:

• Precision!
• I can feel the road!
• No mooshyness!
• My sports car is back!

I suspect the PS2 has stiffer side walls and it gives the tire a bit harder ride (but that is OK!) and way more precision when flicking the steering wheel. A down side of this is that on the interstate, you have to pay attention more as I think the PS2 tires react more to road surface irregularities. My wife is yelling at me way more as I am throwing the car into turns way more aggressively than usual... hey these tires are fun! And throttle steering is way more accurate (or is just more fun?). I purchased the 4S multiple times because of the rave reviews both on YouTube and the forums... but I just could not do it again. I know what I like and don't like. I found the 4S to be a fabulous tire in all aspects... except they were just plain mooshy to me... they just took away some of the fun of this sports car.

Going through my maintenance records over my ownership, I had on this car a set of Micheline Super Sports, and 2.25 sets of 4S tires. I ditched the last set of 4S with very low mileage on them (currently for sale in Marketplace). My records may be incomplete... may have had another set in there somewhere... not sure. I run Michelin Alpins for winter putting them on at Thanxgiving and taking them off around March 15 (or earlier).

Now just some commentary about the Porsche N rating: I don't care. However, I don't at all believe as some have noted over the years, that N rating is a scam deal between Porsche and tire makers. I think it is a great service that takes the guess work out of tire selection for a Porsche owner. Yes, you can buy a tire that is "better" on dry grip, or whatever you want, but overall, an N tire is a good tire for your Porsche. Now having just written this, I have direct experience that this is not always true. I hated.. yes hated... the Pirelli N winter tire. Sucked. I won't go into it as others found them fantastic... but hey, I am just a dork on the internet and we all have our own opinions.

Regarding the tuning that Porsche claims to do with Michelin: I believe it. Now is it the tuning you want? That is up to you. I found this recent video very interesting where Jay Leno is reviewing the new Cadillac 2022 CT5-V Blackwing with Michelin S4 tires, and the GM guy talks about how they tuned tires with Michelin... Michelin would turnaround prototype tires in just 2-3 days!!! Yes, they tweak the crap out of these tires for a maker. I am a total believer in the N concept... whether their choices are what you value or not is up to you.

I moved to my winter 18" rims because I got sick of bending my 19" rims. I really banged the heck out of them last summer... blew out and destroyed the 4S tires... the rims were repaired but I never felt comfortable given the amount of repeated damage I did to them.

Buying these things was a bit of an odyssey. Tire rack said they were back ordered with at least a month wait. My local Discount Tire said they were discontinued. Butler tire here in Atlanta said there were two sets left in the USA, and he got them for me in three days. Odd. Butler TIre here in Atlanta has treated me well with Hunter road-force balancing. They did an alignment on my car when I was down here a few years ago... very precise and tolerated my super-pickiness and desire for super accuracy.

My 4S tires are in great shape and for sale!! See here: https://rennlist.com/forums/market/1262923

Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)

Go to 24:12 or so where he talks about working with Michelin. Amazing!!

 

Pilot Sport 4S, not S4!

 

Ha!! fixed. Thanx.

Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)

 

Thanks for sharing your experience. I’ll be bookmarking this thread for future reference.

Here’s another video that supports what you said about OE-developed tires (fantastic YouTuber by the way):

He explains how much BMW customized their version of the PS4S for the new M3. So much so that I don’t understand how they can even call it a PS4S, because over 2 years of development went into tweaking it. The BMW version has a totally different tread composition (2 compounds for the off-the-shelf version vs. 4-5 compounds for the custom version), different construction to alter contact patch and sidewall stiffness, different groove depths, and on and on.

Is this the equivalent of what N-spec means? Does Porsche actually customize tires like BMW did with the OE-spec PS4S, or do they merely select a few off-the-shelf tires that meet their performance requirements?

 

I think your sentence - sums it all up.
At the end of the day, it is impossible to ignore the fact that 4S tires are much more advanced and much more sporty than PS2 (on dry and wet).
And this is the important measure (in my opinion) that PS4S also have the better road grip of the two (and the closest that CUP2 has).

So, if you compare to CUP2 rating N which is the best starting point for our Porsche. The PS4S is definitely closer in the rankings than the PS2.
If you prefer a naughty tail then I do not have much do not respond to it.

At the same time. PS2 is a great tire! I enjoyed them in my two Porsche. Unfortunately today it is very difficult to get them and many dealers do not keep them in stock. Probably my next tire will be CUP2 or PS4S again.

 

This is interesting and weird because I'm (nearly) in the same boat and haven't been admitting it to myself.

Bought my car 2 yrs ago and soon after found another set of wheels/tires that had 6 year old PSS (not PS2) that were stored in a room at the Porsche dealer for 4-5 years. Switched out the terrible Hankook Ventus V12s that were on the original wheels (there is something to the Porsche N rating, it's not just marketing, imo. Michelin sweats the details and works with manufacturers on developing their tires like few other companies) and was BLOWN AWAY by the old PSS. Transformed the car in every way- steering response, confidence level in corner entry, communication from the front end. Never took them off the car until I corded the left front at Road America (probably had 4 track events with street miles at the time) and drove home on them.

Then, of course, I bought PS4S, because NEW!, because Patrick Long reviewed them and LOVES them!, because they're FASTER on track! But they weren't for me, somehow, and my lap times showed it. A couple to a few 10ths behind the old PSS on every track I go to.

But I think the PS4S are a great street tire and rewarding at enthusiastic/semi-hoonish street driving. Quieter and more comfortable than the PSS. But if I didn't have 2 sets of wheels and had to go with a single tire for track & street? I think I'd opt for the PS2s you're in love with. They sound like an updated PSS and hopefully should be around longer.

 

Good info, Bruce. Does your car have any suspension mods? I'm curious if that affects whether N-rated tires are still relevant.

 

Another question Bruce, what is the date code on those new tires?

Also the PS2 N spec has been similarly developed by Michelin for Porsche 997 use. The engine in the back requires some changes. But I agree with OHMYGGG on that it really shouldn't be called a PS2 if it has been customized that much. Also why hasn't Porsche developed a new PS4S for their older cars or had one of the 20" tires for 991 or 992 modified for 19" wheels? Is it so different that you couldn't reduce the wheel diamater by an inch and provide it for older cars?

 

I have driven/tracked both. The PS2 definitely have stiffer sidewalls and are a much more responsive tire.

The compound on the PS4 is a softer compound and maintains consistency with heating a bit better. As far as lap times the PS4 MAY be slightly faster (.25-.5 sec on a 1:43 min lap). I say may because I haven’t had enough track time this year to break the PS2s in well, but am about .5 sec off my fast time with the PS4s.

As far as road manners the PS2s are certainly stiffer, which does translate to a slightly harsher ride and more road noise.

Now the “fatal flaw” with the PS4 is the softer sidewall needs either more camber and/or much higher pressure than you would want to run in order to not ruin them. Running proper pressure and stock camber and driving it hard the softer sidewall caused so much heat on the shoulder the tread blocks separated from the tire. This happened on all of my tires within 2k miles. The PS2 seem to be better in this manner although admittedly I haven’t had as much time on them.

 

^^^BUT, they are a great rain tire, bgoetz. No overheating!

 

Yeah, except my days of messing around in the rain are limited. Too many consequences, especially since the track that I frequent is awful in the wet. I get to sit right seat in student cars to get my wet experience 😂

 

I’ve wet my pants couple times also

 

I have no suspension mods but I do have the DSC module.... so that gives me, generally, a softer ride than stock.

The date codes are Rears: 4420 (1st week Nov.) and 4620 (3rd week Nov) Fronts: 0721 (4th week of Feb) and 0821 (4th week of Feb)

Why would the date codes matter?

Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)

 

I was wondering when they were made. Sometimes if tires are hard to come by and you have to go a long distance to get them, it's because they are old stock. Yours are 9 months old. Not bad since you are going to wear them out prior to them aging out. I'm due for new tires based on both age and wear so I am getting as much info I can get before I buy. Leaning toward the PS4S but I want to see if I can get an OEM build for another rear engined car like a Ferrari. Since Michelin hasn't made one for the 997 series, I figure I can get a better performing PS4S if I get another manufacturers OEM build if it comes in the same size. I will probably pass on the PS2 since my PSS are already a bit too hard for the spouse for long trips.

 

I didn't comment on my Super Sports.... I just can't remember the details back that far. I do remember I got many more miles out of them than I expected... and I know I really liked them. So much so, it was hard for me to switch to the S4... which I did because of the crazy raves at the time. Anywho.... taste has quite a bit to do with satisfaction with these tires.

Just something to keep in mind... when reviews say something is "better", that does not mean the old is "crappy". PS2 tires are fabulous... so are the Super Sports ... so are the S4. My taste is firmly with the PS2 and definitely NOT with the S4.

Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)