Nic Wellner

Hi group,

Trying to figure out a realistic expectation on a 09-11 and I’ll see some at 39k with higher miles and then 60k for mid to low miles.

ive seen a few other threads where people post some auction comps, hoping someone can help me here.

Only details would be that’s it’s a 997.2 Cab

Thanks in advance

arscottp

The problem with Manheim is the majority of cars sold there are <5 years old (mostly lease returns, trade-ins, and unsold new inventory). The sample size for older cars is extremely small and doesn't always represent the market.

2011 C2S convertibles for example:


Disclaimer, I'm not a dealer. Neighbor is and lets me browse his Manheim

maekwl

Not sure if this is of any help

https://www.classic.com/m/porsche/91.../9972-carrera/

it’s not Mannheim but it might be useful in trying to gauge value.

8KaboveMSL

Lots of factors seem to have a sometimes disproportional impact on the ask/sale price. The prices you mention seem more in line for a 997.1 vs. a 997.2

Factors that seem to really impact the price:

• model: C2 (base), C2S, C4, C4S and whether or not it is a cab - that’s eight possible distinct combinations
• Special model variants - GTS (997.2 only), Turbo, GT3, etc. which are completely different markets altogether
• 6MT vs. PDK - Manuals seem to be going for more than PDKs and PDKs seem to do better than the comparable 997.1 Tiptronics
• mileage - duh
• color - some of the rarer colors (exterior and interior) can fetch some real premiums and some interiors (terracotta/red) seem to actually detract, so eye of the beholder, your mileage may vary, etc.
• Maintenance/service history - many folks like to say you are buying the previous buyer(s) almost as much as you are the actual car

Prices for all 997s seem to be on the rise over the last 12 months or so, so it is a bit of a tricky market to pick an entry point into.

I’d suggest you decide on which variant(s) are most interested in (2 or 4 wheel drive, Manual or Auto, S or base, cabriolet or coupe) and filter the prices you research based on that decision.

There are some deals to be had, but it seems to largely be a buyers market right now, so those that can be nimble and are willing to accept some risk are more likely to find some value. Don’t mistake a low price for value as many here will tell you that in the long run you are better off paying for a well sorted car than getting what seems to be a bargain to only later find out there is ~$10k of deferred maintenance that you need to catch up on.

Check out the auction sites (BaT, PCar Market, Cars and Bids, etc.) as most have historical data on sales and can give you an idea of where things are heading. Be prepared to spend a bit of time on this as all the variants and not a ton of supply make figuring out what to pay for the car you are looking for way more challenging then buying a Jeep, Lexus or Honda, etc.

Good luck with your search!

Nic Wellner

Thanks everyone....I've actually been searching for over a year now....started with 996's and then just decided to move to 997.2. I've come close to buying a few but either it just wasn't the right car and/or had a difficult time with the seller. As I watch BaT, Cargurus, PCA Mart, Cars.com and Autotrader I've seen how the market has shifted. The dealers are just flat out crazy (and hoarding), but the private party market is still ok.

@arscottp I appreciate the list of 2011's could you do the same for 2009 and 2010 for me? Super appreciate it.

arscottp

Sample size is too small to learn anything from

2010 C2S verts



2009 C2S verts

Nic Wellner

Well....we all know what's been going on in the last few months with retail prices....hearing that we've peaked. Any chance for some more auction info on 997.2 C2S Verts? I'm noticing more cars under 60k and even breaking 50k now.

Thanks again!

Optionman1

I couldn't filter out all the coupes, sorry.

https://bringatrailer.com/auctions/r...3+4s+seats+gts

Doug H

Good or even just okay sorted NA 997.2s don’t end up at Mannheim, especially right now. If there is one at an auction now, it probably has serious issues or needs a lot of small issues addressed.
.

texass4

Maybe, but not always. I’ve seen stores get a car that for whatever reason, they just don’t want to deal with. Wrong region for something semi-exotic, wrong time of year, HUUUUGE brodozer truck traded for a Lexus, lazy used car manager, etc. Lots of different reasons. I’m no longer in the car business (thankfully) but it happens a lot. Many different scenarios, but sometimes good cars are immediately sent to the MMR auction and wind up living happily ever after in someone’s garage.

I’d say just be patient. You’ll find .1 cars (especially cabs) popping up more as summer winds down. They’re relatively plentiful compared to .2, but you’ll find them. They don’t last long though, so you will probably need to be “buying” the seller and the deal as much as the car itself. If it’s a good one, hopefully you can punt without getting hurt too badly. BaT is a good place to learn and maybe make a run at something, but I’ve seen more than a handful of cars go for prices that confirm my suspicions that drunken mouse clicks can be dangerous! Hands-down, best place to sell. Buying is tougher.

Challenging time to find a good car, no doubt. What sort of condition/miles/price/etc are you targeting?

classicdotcom

Hello - you can see all of the most recent sales across the primary retail auction houses here: https://www.classic.com/m/porsche/91...972-carrera-s/ Pick your exact variant under "Related Submarkets". Hope that helps!

J.

Doug H

Inventory short and dealers know what are hot and marketable.

I have had access to dealer/wholesale auctions and purchased auction cars since mid 90s mainly really nice, high end stuff to drive and flip. I used to could get really nice stuff in the high end range such as new, pricier exotics (especially Lambos) and high end Porsches likes Turbos, GT3s and etc. that dealers do dump on wholesale if they cannot flip quickly to get get floor plan down and get liquidity for what they can move quickly.

Cheap cars such as 5+ year old NA 911s . . . Rarely if ever see good quality lower priced 911s go through auction in the last 6 or 7 years. In fact, after what I have seen post 2014/15, I would never touch any 997.2 that has gone through auction since 2012. I also would run like heellll from a 997.1 going through auction is that car will be a prime candidate for scoring. You can arbitrate, but PIA and not worth it.

JRitt@essex

I think your comments about dealers are interesting. The high-end specialist dealers are absolutely hoarding what they view as trending future collectibles. I used to also think their pricing practices were crazy (always when they were holding the car I really wanted), but I then realized that they were just wisely working ahead of the curve. The dealers with deep pockets gobble up all the low mileage, rare vehicles and slap what appear to be outrageous prices on them. When they choose the correct markets, enough scarcity and buyer impatience eventually sets in, that they eventually get their asking price. What I failed to accept in the past was that there are far more people out there shopping for the same car I am, except they have a lot more money than me.

With each car sold at what appear to be crazy prices, the baseline price for similar vehicles is dragged towards that price for some period of time. Others selling similar cars wave that sold price around as evidence of worth, and the next wave of prices goes even higher. Retail buyers are left kicking themselves for not buying the car at what they thought was a 'crazy price' back when they initially looked. This is just the standard, vicious cycle of the collectible car market. It's all about risk assessment and your interpretation of where the market is heading. When you're shopping cars that are appreciating, you usually have to gamble and pay a more than you wanted to in order to secure the one you're really after. It stings at the time, but if you make the correct choices (and get lucky) it can pay off in the end. You can obviously also lose your **** if the market swings the other way. You just have to figure out what your risk tolerance is based on how well you think you know the current and future market for the car you're buying.

The 997 is definitely an 'it' car right now, particularly all the .2 variants. Prices have skyrocketed over the past year, and each week there seems to be a new high price record for sold cars (did you see the 6MT 997.2 Turbo that just sold on BAT!?!?). What really seems to be unique right now however, is that prices in the overall vehicle market are pushing prices skyward. When you look at relative prices, the prices are so high on commodity, mass-produced cars that it puts strong upward price pressure on more specialty vehicles. If it costs me $45,000 to buy a Honda Civic Type R, or $80,000 to buy a three year old pickup truck, a 997 at $50k seems far too cheap, no? It's an interesting cycle. Overarching inflationary pressure (whether real or imagined) also does the same thing to vehicle prices, as the prices on everything from lumber, to chicken wings, to houses creep upwards.

I went through this frustrating experience a few years ago when I was shopping for an old Acura NSX. I had been watching them appreciate slowly for years, and at some point I just said "F it" and bought one at the market price of the time. I absolutely hated buying one with the knowledge that I probably could have bought the same car for $10k less six or seven years earlier. How I felt about it didn't change the fact that the past was the past however.
I guess my point is to just keep in mind that the prices you think are crazy today may be viewed as a steal in one, five, or ten years from now. Good luck on your search, and I hope you find the one you're after at a price you deem is fair!

Doug H

A good example at why you should only consider purchasing an auction car or a car that has been through an auction if you know what you are doing.

The Saga of This Well-Specced 911 GT3 Has Us Dumbfounded (msn.com)

Nic Wellner

Hi guys,

Frustrating summer/fall to say the least in trying to find 'the right one'.... It sucks because I had committed to one before prices rocketed it was sold off to a dealer instead. Watching what I watch, I've seen prices drop a little on the 09/10 S Cabs....but I've also gone back to looking at C7's in the 2015ish model year. I know, different car, different purpose, but it's my true love.

Could I ask again for the auction market prices for an 09 Cab (options don't matter, just love to see where prices stack) AND a 15 Vette 2LT?

The other interesting thing I've done over this time is joined a few Facebook groups....the most fun is 'Wholesale Car Club' You get to see some nice higher end cars pass and then see the ridiculous listing for C8's, Broncos, 911s that are getting so much mark up due to the scarcity of those models...fun way to waste your time.

Thanks again