jeebus31

It's amazing what you have convinced yourself to believe. Taking charge of your health is great, fully support it. But you are providing dangerously incorrect statements and that's why I am against it. Last time I checked, youtubers don't get nobel prizes, but the discovery that led to the identification of statins did. That discovery came from identification of patients with cholesterol disorders who were dying at young ages from strokes and heart attacks. Statins reduce their all cause mortality by 50-75%. Are you going to tell them they should go keto and forego life saving medication? I am sure this is falling on deaf ears.

You lecturing me on this stuff is like me telling you how to write a rambling, off topic rennlist thread.

Let's close this already. Wake up, mods.

rodH

Im amazed at the number of medical professionals that do see what’s happening and simply relying on the education they got 20-40 years ago (MDs get minimal nutrition education, and the system is now set up where they have to see so many pts a day that I don’t think they have the time to be extremely thorough (thanx Obamacare) and the way that the people are so easily offended, they rarely tell people what they need to hear (get off your fat ***, lose 100lbs, get your diet in shape and many of your ailments will improve. I use to work with an ortho and I could predict that if he was the referral source and an overweight lady came in with back pain, hip pain, knee pain, usually due to OA, the lady wouldn’t have nice things to say about him. So I would always cur them, “so how did your visit go with Dr XYZ?“. Most would reply, “he’s a jerk, he said that of course you have pain, your carrying an extra 100lbs on a body that has little muscle mass to do so, go lose 50lbs and then we’ll see how you feel and decide on surgery or not at that point”. My reply, “so honestly, was he a jerk, or did he tell you something no one was really willing to tell you? Perhaps he is the one that actually cares and isn’t going to sit and lie to your face?”

The OP brought up some great points. I have 2 buddies. One has type 2 diabetes and the other type 1, BUT he didn’t find out until he was an adult (very odd). One is on a keto diet, other on low carbs. They both are no longer on meds. They track it all day and can’t believe what diet alone can do. The type 1 was a runner (not super thin, average build) and he always looked decent and worked out so he didn’t think diet made a huge difference. The diabetes news made him rethink everything.

I normally favor traditional medicine but the docs just are sometimes too old school on this stuff

php

This is a good post, I'm sure I'll be coming back to it from time to time. Not for myself as I'm fit as a bull luckily but do have friends that suffer similar issues due to bad habits for extended periods of time. I've been trying to talk some sense into them for years but they are just too lazy to change. Maybe this post can help. Self discipline is the foundation of success and that's not just health, but life in general.

jeebus31

Keto kills. Great for rapid initial weight loss and potential early health benefits due to that, but I really hope y'all don't get your medical knowledge from Rennlist. This is the problem with America, people think they are smarter than the experts. It's why Measles is back. I'm out.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...135-X/fulltext

"Low carbohydrate dietary patterns favouring animal-derived protein and fat sources, from sources such as lamb, beef, pork, and chicken, were associated with higher mortality."

996AE

Not a doctor but truth is truth.

Eat less crap. Dont need to go to medical school to understand that.

Exercise more. " "

Dont see a lot of fit unhealthy people.

Poor health is largely caused by poor eating habits and lack of exercise.

Fasting is a great reset for your body. And is a healthy part of many of us that have the goal to stay fit and healthy by eating less. And, what we do eat is good for the body not processed, GMO and fill fillers.

Simple.

Years and years of weight gained from junk food what do you think happens to your body. Weight gain leads to a ever downward spiral of poor health.

Good for OP to share his story.

MexicoBlueTurboS

And with your analysis, it also must be true that Nobel Prize winners don't end up on YouTube? That's how preposterous your arguments are.

You remind me of the guy that stares into the hi-beams of oncoming traffic at night to only get madder and madder as they approach instead of just looking the other way. It's simple. Look the other way. Don't read this post.

MexicoBlueTurboS

You missed the most important part - these people work for the same companies that profit from a 50% carb based diet.

LMS receives grant funding from the California Walnut Commission and Dairy Management Inc, which was not used for this project. SC reports grants from the National Institutes of Health (NIH), and personal fees from Novartis and Zogenix,

@jeebus31 Some essential questions for you.

What did humans eat for the last 200,000 years and what changed dramatically in the last 50 to bring about the pandemic of diabetes and obesity?

What is your profession? Do you also have some conflicts of interest like the esteemed authors of the study you cited?

jeebus31

https://www.youtube.com/user/thenobelprize

Also I love that the statin nobel prize winner is from Dallas and was just featured on their channel two weeks ago

I guess you're wrong again. It's hard to overcome intrinsic intellectual dishonesty.

MexicoBlueTurboS

One last point as to being Porsche related. I was fascinated with Singer Porsches and about a year ago watched this video on YouTube

(Jeebus you may not want to view it, I checked and Joe Rogan does not have a Nobel Prize).


But the autoplay feature of YouTube then played this video (at that time I was more interested in getting a nice 911 so I paid half attention.


Later, when my Dr asked me to go on insulin this was one of the first videos I watched.


Peter Attia was working out 3-4 hours a day and was an accomplished long distance swimmer and was still developing metabolic syndrome and insulin resistance.

You can't exercise your way out of excess carbs and sugars.

So yeah Porsche saved my life.

Fahrer

It's good that you are taking action to improve your health.

Some of your statements, however, are a bit off the rails. Claiming that statins don't work is a bit of a stretch to say the least. I know many folks who have eaten right, exercised regularly and kept the weight off to still find over time that their cholesterol and sugar levels have increased significantly. My 95 year old father in law will swear to you that " the pills" are the reason he is alive and doing well today.

Popular medicine is not new. We have seen it for decades in paperbacks claiming the medical community knows nothing and I, the writer of this new book, have all the answers. The only difference today is that we can get this "information" on you tube. Pop medicine can be dangerous.

Yes, limiting food intake in general, less calories, less carbs, less sugar, less alcohol, less stress, less beef, more fish, more exercise, etc. is the way to go but for many people this doesn't do it.

By the way, in nature, humans only lived about 30 years. I intend to have an artificially long life ( 80-100 years)( through modern, unnatural living ( clean water etc.), including pharmaceuticals.

Finally, I hope you remain successful with your efforts to improve your health.

C4SDayton

Personally, I believe any diet restricting calories to a reasonable level plus exercise will make one feel better and lose weight, and subsequently help blood pressure, diabetes and lower cholesterol. Why argue with that.

Statins improve mortality not entirely by lowering levels but by stabilizing plaque. They are more beneficial to people genetically predisposed to high LDL. There are people with more marginal high cholesterol getting marginal at best benefits that don't need them.

Animal protein causes inflammation. It has been proven. Smoked and cured meats are even worse with respect to health and cancer risk. The keto diet is good for losing weight, but a similar diet centered around whole grains and plant based is superior to a meat based diet in terms of general disease improvement and inflammation. Tailoring a diet to a disease you have like diabetes is smart, but plant based is superior regardless. I eat meat daily, so I'm not hocking any particular method or weak articles or you tube videos. There are good videos and articles and a sea of wannabes.

I'm happy the OP is feeling better. Of course he is. He is losing weight, cutting carbs as a diabetic, and exercise using. He should feel better. He shouldn't confound all the variables he changed at once with the various results and then spread a combination of reasonable common sense advice and total bull$hit like it`s true and helpful to everyone else in the world.

The best doctors just graduating with cutting edge training will be putting appropriate patients on statins and hopefully less that may not need them. And advising patients that being fat and sedentary is not a good thing.

MexicoBlueTurboS

Statins do work - they reduce cholesterol. But cholesterol is not the problem. It's much more complicated than that. The short of it to my best understanding - 90% of cholesterol is produced by your body not dietary that's the first surprise. So why would evolution make something 'harmful'? The reality is it isn't. On the contrary, cholesterol is essential for human life, brains and every cell membrane. As seen in the Diamond videos in the top post, the drug companies skewed the results of the trials with statistics. You only get a ~1% advantage in avoiding a first heart attack, and when the long term use is looked at statin users all have higher mortality rates than non users.

Here is a short video discussing the subject in depth. (way more comes into play - such as inflammation, the temporal death of glycocalyx due to repeated and regular high blood glucose levels , oxidized ldl / remnant cholesterol etc. but this works for now.)


As to life expectancy - the number you cited is correct, however, those low numbers are the result of very high infant mortality rates, lack of good medicine, antibiotics, hygiene and vaccines absent in the Pleistocene. Multiple factors for sure, but for the survivors, it wasn't their diets.

The fact we're having a discussion on rennlist is indicative of the fact our ancestors from 20,000 years ago thrived and survived on the food macros, fat and protein. Grain wasn't introduced until about 10,000 years ago and even then the proliferation of sugar, refined grains and Omega 6 oils like we have today that have led to a pandemic of insulin resistance (in both fat and thin) and diabetes and obesity wasn't present until the last 50 years. Primarily caused by the recommendations of Dr. Ancel Keys (against fat, meat and cholesterol) and the McGovern report (that created the food pyramid and now 'my plate') that place a high emphasis on carbs in the diet. (>50%).

These diet recommendations are at the root cause of most all chronic illness and resulting in the US having the 43rd lowest life expectancy in the world in 2016 and headed further south by 2040.

Last but not least, longevity doesn't indicate the quality of life in any measure. Many people are living into their 90s but with barely any quality of life or even cognitive function.

https://www.minnpost.com/second-opin...chers-predict/

You're lucky your father is still alive and you get to spend time with him.* Sounds like you have some good genes. Thanks for your well wishes.

*If I could turn the clock back 2 years, I would have spent more time with my pop and less on the internet arguing with the likes of me.

MexicoBlueTurboS

You're wrong again. He won the prize for: "discoveries concerning the regulation of cholesterol metabolism" which later led to the development of statins.

There is no "statin nobel prize winner" from Dallas or anywhere.

Still rolling ?

https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/me...ldstein/facts/

And while his science may have been solid in 197 f'ing 3.

The way the drug companies sniffed the profits possible and went on to develop by the late 80s. That is old outdated and flawed science by now. And it was never any good in the first place.

From a published paper:

"Statins are the most widely prescribed, cholesterol-lowering drugs in the world. Despite the expiration of their patents, revenue for statins is expected to rise, with total sales on track to reach an estimated US$1 trillion by 2020. A bitter dispute has erupted among doctors over suggestions that statins should be prescribed to millions of healthy people at low risk of heart disease. There are concerns that the benefits have been exaggerated and the risks have been underplayed. Also, the raw data on the efficacy and safety of statins are being kept secret and have not been subjected to scrutiny by other scientists. This lack of transparency has led to an erosion of public confidence. Doctors and patients are being misled about the true benefits and harms of statins, and it is now a matter of urgency that the raw data from the clinical trials are released."

Once the profits began rolling in and have you noticed the marketing is all BS because the benefit is only ~1% while side effects are huge, they lowered the cholesterol numbers in order to get more and more patients (healthy ones) on statins.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-...d-statins.html

"Research shows that for every 1,000 people that are at risk of heart problems, if those people take a statin for three years, statins will prevent:

• 7 non-fatal heart attacks
• 4 strokes
• 2 deaths

This means that nearly 99% of people will not benefit from statins."

Risks include:

• Affect on liver function
• Stomach problems such as abdominal pain, constipation, flatulence, diarrhea and vomiting
• Rashes
• Disorder of the muscles (myopathy)
• Memory problems
• Increased risk of developing type 2 diabetes

All that for a 1% risk reduction for the population (not you, this isn't an N=1 experiment )

The worldwide market for statins will be $1 trillion in 2020!!! That kind of money influences politicians, policy, research dollars, medical research, news, advertising and a huge number of people (guppies) making a living in pharma sales.

Why isn't the efficacy data and risks been published. Biohackers have estimated that 1 in 4 statin users will develop diabetes, muscle

Do you think that even for a minute (watch any evening news broadcast) that they would report on the ineffectiveness and dangers of statins when most of their commercials are from those same pharma companies?

The problem is we all believe a lot of things that just aren't true. Me included. And while I don't know the absolute and final truth, I do know the BS we've been fed (by media, food and pharma) is killing us.


Your average doctor is no superhuman either. They are busy and like most well off people they are concerned with how not to get sued, how to invest the money they do have and enjoying their own lives. Very few of them go home and read 1000's of papers like David Diamond (video below) and then boil that knowledge down into an hour long speech.

jeebus31

Wow. You are just digging yourself deeper and deeper. There is no point in debating as you are clearly the expert here, armed to the teeth with youtube videos. Good luck!

MexicoBlueTurboS

So when you lose, you take your ball and go home?

Seriously though - why are you still looking into the high beams instead of seeing the light?