Dealing with insurance for total loss car payout
 

So I made a post last week about wanting a euro bumper after someone rear ended me. well after dealing with a bunch of ****ty insurance things they are actually gonna total the car.

Anyone who has been through this know what information I should gather or what I should have in my arsenal to get more for the payout, they called me an have said they have their own "agreed upon value" formula and of course its less then I even paid for the car which I only bought a year ago.
If you want to post it here and PM me It would be greatly appreciated.

The car was a 2009 997.2 Porsche 911 Carrera S coupe 6speed manual with 48k miles. In great condition with NO issues. They are offering 10k less then the cars value. I have told them to forward the claim to a supervisor to have another appraiser look at it.

Any thoughts?

There was a thread on here that talked about a seemingly small rear bumper collision and the underlying frame damage was so significant that the car was totalled. I wish I could tell you exactly where but I don't remember. Perhaps there is some info there that would help you, or one of the OPs will see this and respond. May I ask what source you are getting your value from for your argument with the ins co?

I would start by trying to locate every 2009 CS 6speed for sale across the country right now and do an average of the asking price broken down by mileage - autotrader, truecar, cars.com, carfax.com. It wouldnt hurt if you have a friend to look at what they have sold for at Mannheim during the past 12 months as well. No doubt insurance companies would use that data since it tells what they actually sold for. Thats going to be a lower number than what, you, the retail buyer would pay. Then of course you can do the usual KBB private party value as well. All of these things taken together establish a cars value.

1) The fact that the car is valued at less than it sold for a year ago should not come as a surprise.
2) It is likely that the insurer's first offer is not their final offer. You have made the initially right move in asking that the claim be referred up the ladder.
3) It is difficult to determine actual "value," as most people only have access to asking prices, not actual sale prices. You should try to find the best (closest in spec and mileage) examples, make some allowance for negotiation, and use those as comparables to submit to the insurer. AFAIK, eBay is the only place you will find actual sale prices, and they are now few and far between.
4) I do not know what the insurance regs are where you live, but some states have independent adjusters who will appraise the vehicle and make your case to the insurer.
Good luck!

Get the sales off BAT. The 997s prices have been strong, and they are actual sale prices, not asks.

When a car is totaled, the settlement value should be sufficient to buy another 997 in similar condition, mileage, etc. Take any mods off the car if possible. And note any recent significant maintenance performed. And it should also include sales taxes you would have to pay to buy that replacement 997. As others have suggested, you need to do research and present a proper market value to replace the vehicle.

So they sent me the appraisal estimate and are using the Nada values, and of course the lowest "retail" of their values, like for example the fact its manual shows "lower" value.

shekmark/dc911s , That is essentially the deal with my car, was hit at 20/30mph while I was stopped at a traffic light. The damage from the outside looks like just the impact bar/rear bumper needs replacement. The car was hit at a weird angle, where the licene plate area (bumperettes were almost not touched...) is where the impact area was. this pushed the impact bar and crossmember forward. The parts are only for new bumpers/impact bar etc. But the labor bill is huge(25K+) because the estimate includes the engine/axles/suspension taken out to verify the cross member integrity and measured within 2mm of porsche spec. Which is why its being totaled since the quoted time is a few months and the insurance company thinks once work starts it will only go up in price.

To everyone else after the person was found at fault 100% I took it to a porsche certifed place with excellent reviews so I know their estimate is probably correct , the person who hit me was under insured so their insurance wouldn't cover most of the cost of this repair, so for now I had to get my insurance involved and they are the one who are totaling it and they called with the offer , I am having them move it up to another adjuster/manager and I am naturally torn up since I only bought the car a year ago at the market prices and fully paid it off in january 2018 :( .......

wow that sucks..if i was you i would also try to buy it back..and sell it for parts make double ur money back

VERY sorry to hear.

That was me.
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...n-freeway.html

I will say I had no say in determining the payout value of the car, not for a lack of trying. My insurance company is USAA. They determined the value based off their own metrics, and they took care of me (paid me out) BEFORE negotiating the the other party's insurance company, which I greatly appreciate being kept out of.

To the OP: I'm very sorry your car was totaled. Hopefully a better 911 is in your near future.

- Jeff

Diminished Value

I'd be learning about how to get after them for it.

One other thing, I've had the insurance company try to do something like this to me, I forced the issue and demanded to know how they came to the valuation. Come to find out they were looking at all Audi TTS on sale for valuation. When I told them to take out the convertibles and only look at the cars which were the same color as mine.. well I came out of it with $1k USD more than I paid for the car in the first place.

jeffleept, I just clicked on your thread and my car looks EXACTLY like that from the rear and even your description is exactly like mine except it wasnt on the freeway but on a normal morning traffic main street where speed limit was 20/30mph. Everyone was stopped ahead at the traffic light including me. When someone (who was probably on their phone) slammed into me. I was also wearing my seatbelt and it became very tight when it happened so my body was stuck to the seat and not near my steering wheel so airbags didnt go off, but I smelt smoke from the seltbelt after and the drivers one seemed like it was broken to me.

Since the person who hit me was underinsured I had to file a claim with my own insurance, I bought the car summer of 2016 with 50% downpayment and paid the other 50% in 2017, so the car was officially paid off dec 2017. So I understand the cars depreciate, but theres no way this car has depreciated by 10-15k in a year when the few ones that are even listed for sale/ sold are selling for the same price I paid for mine.

You will undoubtedly get a low-ball offer. If want the best price for your car you are going to have to do the work and prove their numbers are wrong. Make a spreadsheet of all the cars listed on autotrader.com or cars.com for the same year, make, ~miles and model and calculate the average price. This should be your target buy-back/totaled price. If they question your pricing methodology, you might consider 5% less than ask price, which may be a more accurate selling price.

Insurance metrics for other car manufactures don't always agree with used Porsches. Porsche are not like other cars and are very strong in the used car market.

Good luck.

What a bummer. One of my co-workers had his car totaled last week. The insurance representative started off with a low value and told him they were taking 20% off because they said he was 20% at fault. He asked them how he figured that. He was not speeding and was not cited for any violation by the police. The insurance company individual said that he was driving the speed limit which they felt was too fast for conditions. Of course my co-worker called bull and when the insurance company found out he had been to a chiropractor, they offered 100% of what my co-worker valued the car at. It's all a big racket. As an aside, when he went to the chiropractor, the first question they asked him was who was his attorney. They were shocked when he said he didn't have one and they offered to refer him to some good ones who would get him maximum payout.

The good news is that he is about to replace his Honda with a 2011 911.

Wow! This sucks to hear
My 2008 AMG C63 was totaled last July but my experience was good. NADA on it was around 20k but insurance paid me around 27-28k.
Based off what I paid for 09 C2S last fall with the same mileage, I would have expected your insurance to pay out between 46-49k minimum

I dont know your location so that doesnt help. Im assuming you live in the lower 48 and bound by US law. Their agreement with you is to make you whole. That is the essence of insurance. They can delay, they can low ball, but they cannot refuse to make you whole. In every state there is an insurance commission. If, If, If your numbers are fare to what replacement value on a comparable car in your region at a specific point in time and they refuse, get the local insurance commission involved. There is a time line by law that they have to abide by, and they know it. Once you invoke the insurance commission, they will play ball.

In short, they are compelled by law to perform. When you call a teacher, they will perform.

Sorry for your loss and situation as that's going to be a little tough to replace especially with less than you paid for it. This us the exact reason I have an Agreed Value policy on all of my Porsches with Grundy (underwritten by a special division of AIG). Agreed Value is different than Stated Value and means in a total loss, we've already agreed on the number I'll get for the car, as 3 of them are essentially irreplaceable with an identical car because they don't exust - the supercharged RUF 997, the supercharged convertible 928, and the widebody Cayenne Turbo S.

As others have said, you need to gather data on recent comparable sales to present to them. Some of the online sires list previously sold cars - look at both RAC and Sloan cars - both premium high, end dealers.

The seatbelts gave pyro pretensioners in them that use an explosion similar to an airbag to tighten them in an accident. This is what you smelled, felt, and why the mechanism now seems broken. They're a single accident use item. Usually when these or the airbags deployed, it blows the pyro fuse too, which prevents the car from restarting.

Good luck.

captainbaker yes i'm in the lower 48 states, i'm out west in california temporarily and this is where the accident occurred.

There are only (6-8) 2009 Porsche 911S manual transmissions for sale in the whole USA right now according to cars.com/autotrader/ebay.(bringatrailer has only sold a majority 997.1's the only 997.2 they had was a base model) they range from 53k-60k asking prices from the dealers.

When averaging all the prices together 55k is the number I come up with and is about what I paid for a guards red/sand beige interior 911S 6speed with 32k miles on it and no mods(aside from new wheels/tires). The insurances first offer is in the 40s which wouldn't be enough to even buy another 2009 997.2S. (the 2010 models are all in the 60k range)

Petza I have agreed value on another old rare sports car that I own so I know all about that and thankfully havent had to use it on that one. The only problem I see with the porsche scenario is I dont know how/ where to see what these cars "sold" for because there are so few of them even for sale. But I just know i'm not accepting their current offer as it is a lowball.

So, insurance calculations vary by companies. Mine actually used market value based off comps for sale in my region (southeast). But others look solely at NADA or blue book values.
But yeah, I think getting 55k for an 09 C2S from the insurance company is going to be tough. Especially with all the PDK cars being sold in the 43-47k range and from a book value standpoint, autos will always be higher valued.

If State Farm Insurance is available in your region, look into a policy with them on your next car. That is who I have and they comp cars exactly like yours for pay outs


***EDIT.. Just messed around the NADA website. Really sucks that they do not break down the options when looking values beyond, auto, pwr seat, Bose, Navi... Should have went a little more depth in my mind with the options and value

Yea I believe they are using Nada values which by their own metric is wrong for the car because when you click on the link to "find a similar car" it just takes you to autotrader where the cars are the same price range I quoted/ are even more expensive because it has a bunch of Turbo's on the search listing.

Sorry to hear that you have to go through this. I was in a similar situation last year and while their initial offer was low we ultimately came to what I felt was a fair conclusion though it took some work on my part and more than two months to reach the settlement. As was mentioned above they are responsible by law to make you whole. Show them the comps you have found and if they continue to low-ball you, call their bluff and tell them “ok, rather than a buyout payoff, just find me the same car in the same condition with the same options and same mileage, and I'll take the replacement car instead of the money.” Because that is what they are implying they can do for the value they are offering. Our cars are rather unique and your run of the mill insurance adjuster does not necessarily understand what they are dealing with. The build sheet is a good starting point to present them with factory documentation of the list of options that were on the car and what it originally cost. Good luck and let us know how things work out!

http://admin.porschedealer.com/repor....php?vin=ENTER YOUR VIN HERE

As an update and info on how funny insurance companies are , I hadn't heard anything from insurance in a few days, I wrote up a simple few sentence email saying what comps were available and within 10 minutes the original adjuster had already emailed me an updated offer(about 5k more) and then a few minutes later called me and I talked to to the person about it and was nice and calm(just doing their job no need to get angry/take it personal on them) and they stated again even though its the second offer that its their final offer and said the same insurance voodoo about even though 1+1 is 2 when it comes to paying out the car fairly 2+2= 3. I politely asked to be given the information of the manager/next person to escalate and was given that info. So I will be following up with that person next to get the last 3-5k hopefully to feel I got the cars correct value.

Hello,

I normally buy cars from salvage yards or directly from the insurance companies . The way they pay the client out is based on WHAT IS THE RETAIL VALUE VS WHAT IS THE REPAIR COST VS WHAT CAN THEY RECOUP AFTER SELLING at a salvage yard . What they try to do is try to lose as little money as possible(especially) if their is a LIEN/LOAN on the car. YOU should still be able to negotiate your pay out, This is just a simple tool insurers use .Hope this helps

Alex-