When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
IMHO, 2 things:
- you shouldn't limit your market to track-only. A good wheel will be attractive to people for street and/or track. Example - OZ Allegerita. If you don't accommodate a center cap, you're limiting your appeal for the street.
- you shouldn't base your decision on a small number of people. If you're spreading these surveys and questions far and wide and getting a big volume of responses, then that's one thing. If you're only getting a small number of responses, I'd take them with a grain of salt. That goes for my opinions as well!
IMHO, 2 things:
- you shouldn't limit your market to track-only. A good wheel will be attractive to people for street and/or track. Example - OZ Allegerita. If you don't accommodate a center cap, you're limiting your appeal for the street.
- you shouldn't base your decision on a small number of people. If you're spreading these surveys and questions far and wide and getting a big volume of responses, then that's one thing. If you're only getting a small number of responses, I'd take them with a grain of salt. That goes for my opinions as well!
Good luck!
Jack
Hi Jack,
Thanks for taking the time to provide me with your input - it's very much appreciated.
The street guys will follow track trends and trust track-proven wheels, but not vice versa. In our experience, engineering these wheels to withstand years of severe track abuse behooves both the street and track crowd.
In any capacity, it's very helpful to enlist enthusiasts in the decision making process. Rather than sitting around a conference table internally brainstorming ideas, fitments, designs, and details that we think would be relevant to a specific community, incorporating forum members into product development has been forefront on our minds. We ultimately produce what we see best fit/engineered for each individual chassis, but the feedback we receive almost always lines up with our hypothesis or shapes our agenda.
The street guys will follow track trends and trust track-proven wheels, but not vice versa. In our experience, engineering these wheels to withstand years of severe track abuse behooves both the street and track crowd.
This is the point I was trying to make, that from a business model standpoint, you'll want to appeal to the street guys as well, even if it's secondary from a chronology and design priority perspective. If your wheels don't accept centercaps, it won't matter for the track guys, but you will (IMHO) lose out on some of that follow-on market of the street guys.
This is the point I was trying to make, that from a business model standpoint, you'll want to appeal to the street guys as well, even if it's secondary from a chronology and design priority perspective. If your wheels don't accept centercaps, it won't matter for the track guys, but you will (IMHO) lose out on some of that follow-on market of the street guys.
Thanks Jack, I totally understand what you're saying. I appreciate your feedback - we're on the same page.
Based on responses thus far, I've gathered that those who seek to shed every ounce of weight will opt for the $6k/set of light(er)weight wheels anyway. At a fraction of that price-point, a lightweight, strong, off-the-shelf APEX wheel option can likely stand to keep an additional .25lbs.
Thanks Jack, I totally understand what you're saying. I appreciate your feedback - we're on the same page.
Based on responses thus far, I've gathered that those who seek to shed every ounce of weight will opt for the $6k/set of light(er)weight wheels anyway. At a fraction of that price-point, a lightweight, strong, off-the-shelf APEX wheel option can likely stand to keep an additional .25lbs.
I think you're spot on here. People looking for a dedicated track wheel and are unconcerned with running a centercap are going to be looking to manufacturers who have a recognized motorsports division and fully forged construction. Based on the price point of your current offerings, I'm betting most buyers will be using these primarily as a street wheel with occasional HPDE use. For a lot of these people, looks will be a large concern and no centercaps will be non-starter. It is especially unattractive to someone who might be interested in a decent looking set of winter wheels. Compatibility with OE center caps would be a great addition, as well as compatibility with factory wheel bolts. Based on the number of threads I see where people are confused about offset and spacer sizes, OE sizing would probably be appreciated so people can be more sure of fit, bolt them on, and go. More finish options would also be attractive (especially if people are interested in matching the OE center caps).
In my opinion, I'd try and stay away from the budget track market unless you're willing to go all in for it. We've all seen (several times) what happens when wheels advertised for track use inevitably fail. The driver heads straight to his favorite forum/social media/blog to tell everybody how unsafe these wheels are and how they're entitled to a full refund, plus repairs to their car, and a t-shirt for their troubles. When the company, rightfully, denies the warranty claim, they head straight back to their keyboard to post their sob story about how they saved for 5yrs for their dream car that's now broken, how they're getting screwed, etc. Every keyboard attorney jumps in to save the day, it goes viral...you know the rest.
But, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
I think you're spot on here. People looking for a dedicated track wheel and are unconcerned with running a centercap are going to be looking to manufacturers who have a recognized motorsports division and fully forged construction. Based on the price point of your current offerings, I'm betting most buyers will be using these primarily as a street wheel with occasional HPDE use. For a lot of these people, looks will be a large concern and no centercaps will be non-starter. It is especially unattractive to someone who might be interested in a decent looking set of winter wheels. Compatibility with OE center caps would be a great addition, as well as compatibility with factory wheel bolts. Based on the number of threads I see where people are confused about offset and spacer sizes, OE sizing would probably be appreciated so people can be more sure of fit, bolt them on, and go. More finish options would also be attractive (especially if people are interested in matching the OE center caps).
In my opinion, I'd try and stay away from the budget track market unless you're willing to go all in for it. We've all seen (several times) what happens when wheels advertised for track use inevitably fail. The driver heads straight to his favorite forum/social media/blog to tell everybody how unsafe these wheels are and how they're entitled to a full refund, plus repairs to their car, and a t-shirt for their troubles. When the company, rightfully, denies the warranty claim, they head straight back to their keyboard to post their sob story about how they saved for 5yrs for their dream car that's now broken, how they're getting screwed, etc. Every keyboard attorney jumps in to save the day, it goes viral...you know the rest.
But, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
Thanks for all your feedback - it is much appreciated!
For 10+ years now, we've listened to the BMW motorsports community to fill the voids of OEM and aftermarket offerings; fitment(s) being one of them. There is a lot to gain using OEM specifications as a baseline and improving the widths and offsets to complement the chassis. Whether it be directly plug n' play, plug n' play with aggressive camber/rolling/accommodating modifications, or anything in-between, we've always offered a successful solution. Our Porsche wheels will absolutely accept OEM lug bolts and the OEM center-cap if we opt for center-cap accommodation - which we very likely will.
We've found that street drivers will trust track-proven wheels and follow track trends, but not vice versa - which is why APEX has thrived in both street and track markets. We engineer and produce quality, lightweight, affordable, off-the-shelf wheels for track rats and the street-goers follow suit. APEX wheels are used throughout multiple levels of racing from NASA, SCCA, WRL, to Pirelli World Challenge and Continental Tires SportsCar Challenge. As we dive into a new market, our successful process and experience doesn'’t change - the only thing that changes is further engineering for Porsche chassis optimization. As we finalize our Porsche-specific computer revisions, FEA, and strength tests, APEX will continue to produce wheels worthy of severe track abuse.
Thank you to the 700+ fellow enthusiasts who have participated in our survey. It is still live and we're continually welcoming feedback well into our development stages. It directly impacts what we produce and when, so please share your preferences.
I'll have exciting news in the coming weeks, so stay tuned!
It's almost Christmas and we want to see the wheels. The best excuse to buy me a present.
One question, where are the Apex wheels made at? If made in the USA, I'm still in
Thanks
It's almost Christmas and we want to see the wheels. The best excuse to buy me a present.
One question, where are the Apex wheels made at? If made in the USA, I'm still in
Thanks
Thanks for your inquiry and excitement!
We've answered this question on a few other threads/forums, so I'll copy & paste for sake of time efficiency.
Originally Posted by APEXRaceParts
We always welcome these questions as there are a lot of shady practices in the wheel industry when it comes to how they represent manufacturing and certification. Any opportunity to shed light on the subject is one that always helps illustrate APEX’s strengths.
We’ve been in business for 10 years, and we’ve stuck with one supplier in China. We chose them because they already had the equipment to Flow-Form which was rare back then, and their primary customers were big OEMs and other Japanese wheel manufacturers. What’s kept our relationship strong has been their willingness to further increase their QA standards at our request, and to support our extensive crush testing despite our low production volumes.
I can’t speak with any certainty on where another wheel is manufactured, but if they have a history of being soft and low quality, then it’s almost certainly not from our supplier as we’re definitely paying a premium to get the quality we require. As flow-forming became popular, a lot of other manufacturers have popped up offering similar services. If a vendor doesn’t come to a supplier with any of their own standards, and they’re just looking for a wheel, then there are a lot of suppliers out there now that are happy to cater to vendors just looking for another thing to sell.
For anything manufactured overseas, real world testing and independent checks are required to ensure you get quality out of a supplier. Done right, you get an iphone. Done wrong, you get exploding hoverboards. This is where the biggest differences start to reveal themselves in the wheel industry. It’s clear that most brands don’t even understand how to keep their suppliers in check as they’ll claim JWL and VIA on product that clearly haven’t been tested. We can tell they’re misrepresenting their products because there is a database that contains all the supplier names, wheel models, and test related data for every wheels that’s ever been certified by the VIA. Most wheels aren’t on that list as they’ve never been tested. Some vendors are novices that and assume they’re tested or they work with suppliers that tell them they’re tested, while others purposefully skip it to save costs. Both make you really worry about what other corners are being cut or missed.
After multiple computer revisions and FEA, we run real world impact, load, and crush tests for every unique wheel spec. Even if the offset change is only 1mm different on a new size, we still do the tests. Since all of this testing is done in-house, we need to keep our supplier in check. When they’re done we send wheels to the VIA in Japan which is a government testing organization. They real world crush test our wheels again and provide 3rd party validation that corners aren’t being cut.
This thorough testing gives us the confidence that we’re producing quality product that’s worthy of being driven at the limits on track. The last 10 years of customers beating on our wheels is proof that we’ve accomplished just that.
Please let us know if you have any further questions.
To follow up, here's a response to another enthusiast inquiring about our JWL/VIA certification(s).
Originally Posted by APEXRaceParts
We encourage enthusiasts to do their due-diligence before making an educated wheel purchase as we’re all aware of the failures that can happen.
Posting a video doesn’t prove anything as we’ve seen them already from other manufacturers that lie about their certification(s). Each factory has the equipment in-house to conduct tests, but it doesn’t mean everything is tested or tested to the same standards as what the VIA requires. To us, in-house testing is just like taking a practice SAT test. The only score a college will care about is the officially sanctioned test you took, not the one you did at home on your own. These in-house tests and videos are conducted without regulation, subject to false load quantities, and used solely for marketing purposes. This is where the catastrophic on-track failures occur and the biggest differences start to reveal themselves in the wheel industry.
The VIA in Japan runs the JWL test and there is only one way to conduct that test so a manufacturer can’t game the system. SAE J2530 testing conducted in the USA by some manufacturers can be manipulated. We got into a spat with a competitor many years ago that claimed JWL/VIA/TUV certification. They only did SAE testing and that test allows them to pick any load rating to certify. That brand only tested to 1200lbs when VIA requires 690KG (1521lbs) for the 5x120 bolt pattern. A trend we see lately is brands that use tricky terminology such as “exceeds JWL/VIA”. Translated, that means they have no third party official evidence of anything, they want you to trust that they conducted a legitimate in-house test, and for some good reason they decided not to take that last step.
So how do you know we’re the real deal? There’s two ways to check. One way is online. The VIA maintains a list of every single manufacturer, wheel model, and size that has been certified. Unfortunately, they require a login to view that list which we find odd as we believe that should be a public database. The other way is by looking at the certified test reports that are mailed to them by the VIA.
Although we don’t have a video of the test being run, we noticed the older reports did include a photograph of our wheel in an impact test machine which we’ve attached below. The new reports just include a photo of the wheel on the ground which is not as interesting.
The only things we’ve hidden in these images is our source’s name.
Thank you, sir! We're exploring the possibility of center-lock APEX wheels in the future, but they won't be included in any of our initial production runs. We'll put more and more energy into our potential center-lock offerings after our wheels have hit the market (both 18" and 19").
We're shooting for an ETA of April/May 2018 delivery date; ideally before the upcoming track season is in full swing. Our pre-order will likely be set up shortly after the new year, so I'll certainly update as I can.
10-28-2017, 07:47 AM
