earossi

Hi. I usually hang out on the 993 Forum, but am considering selling my 993 N/A coupe to purchase a 996 or 997 Turbo. I have been a Porsche owner for 25 years (having owned 9 Porsches), so I am extremely familiar with the "weaknesses" of each Porsche design that I have owned. Moving up to a more modern car with a turbo will be a new experience for me, and I am seeking information/recommendations on what to look for in evaluating a used turbo.

My son had a Boxster S, so I am knowledgeable about the issues with the early water cooled motors. And, I am aware that the turbos use a Metzger block that avoids the infamous IMS bearing issue. But, what other things should I look for in a 996 or 997 turbo?

I am fairly mechanically inclined and have always done all my own wrenching, including the rebuild of several 911 motors, including the one in my 993. Is wrenching on a turbo more difficult other than the fact that there are more "pieces" involved with the turbo design?

Lastly, what things should I do after purchasing a car? Such as replacing any items or "modifying" any items to preemptively make the car more bullet proof?

FRUNKenstein

First off, welcome.
These are great cars - very robust.
BTW, it's "Mezger" (no "t").
I had a NA 996 before getting my 996tt. I think they are about the same to work on.
Macster will likely chime in with his buyer's guide.
Hydraulic spoiler is a common issue, but you can now permanently fix as well as upgrade that system easily for about $1,800.

earossi

Thanks for the rapid response. I'll try to remember Mezger. Regarding the cost of improving the hydraulics of the spoiler....,.is $1800 an all in cost from a dealer? What are parts costs for the upgrade? An item like this would be one that I would tackle myself.

Macster

Here's a cut/paste from a recent post on the subject of buying a used Turbo:

My advice is to treat the car just like a used car. Give it a thorough used car checkout.

Visit the car cold, turn off the A/C (you test this later) and when you turn on the key verify all the warning lights come on (including the all important CEL) and all go off.

Note if the car is equipped with a manual transmission and the clutch is hard to depress before you start the engine. If it is hard to depress that's a sign the clutch accumulator is bad.

Once the engine is running, well, Porsche allows 20 seconds IIRC, the clutch should be easier to depress. If you feel a mild pulsing in the clutch pedal that's another sign the accumulator is bad.

Let the engine idle while you look the car over, but keep an ear tuned to how the engine sounds. It can sound a big "rough" when cold but as it warms up it gets smoother running. My experience it is it won't get sewing machine smooth (like my Boxster) but it does get/sound better as it warms up and when it is warm enough that the idle RPMs drop to near hot idle RPMs.

Let the engine idle as long as you can -- 10 minutes or longer -- then have the seller take you on a 15 mile test ride. The route should give the seller a chance to demo the car as you intend to use it.

Back at the starting point then you switch seats and drive the car over the same route and drive the car the same way.

For a manual there should be no trouble engaging any gear and of course as ALLUC alluded to the transmission should not pop of 2nd (any) gear.

For a Tip do a K-turn to verify the Tip can take being shifted from Drive to Reverse and back and forth in quick succession a couple of times and it can keep up without any drama.

Back at the starting point then subject the car to a thorough used car checkout.

For a manual equipped car right after you shut off the engine fully depress and release the clutch pedal. Do this say 10 times. If the pedal gets hard to depress that's a sign the clutch accumulator is bad. (My experience is if the accumulator is bad the clutch pedal will be hard to depress right after you shut off the engine.)

Open the front trunk lid and check for fluid stain on top of the plastic panel just in front the windshield on the driver's side. If there is fluid stain that's a sign the clutch slave cylinder is leaking. (Often if the clutch accumulator is bad the slave cylinder is too.)

As you check out the car pay attention to your nose. You should *not* smell anti-freeze. If you do that's a water pump or radiator or a radiator coolant tank or cap or even a coolant fitting leak.

Open the engine compartment lid and confirm the spoiler hydraulics show no signs of fluid wetness.

Look in the radiator duct openings. If they are full of trash budget for a bumper cover removal to clean out the trash that has accumulated. Also, suspect the body water drains under the front trunk lid under the plastic panels on either side of the battery box are full of plant trash and this can block water and cause it to overflow into the cabin. This is to be avoided for the security alarm module is on the floor of the cabin under the passenger seat. The security alarm module wants to remain dry. Always.

Check under the seats for any signs of dampness. Also, feel along the door bottoms. These can become damp -- even dripping wet -- as the door membrane fails and water gets in the door where it shouldn't.

When you open the doors the window should drop smartly about a half an inch and stay down until you close the door then go up as smartly as it went down.

Windows should go down and up using the lower/raise buttons with no noises.

Check all the subsystems from the AC/heater to the sun roof, seat controls, mirror controls, etc.

If you still like the car arrange for a PPI. Among other things this gets the car in the air so a careful/thorough check can be made for any fluid leaks. Every hose, fitting, o-ring, gasket, seal, radiator, and boot gets checked for leak sign.

Look up front for any signs of fluid coming from around the radiators (there are 3) or from the front diff or the steering rack.

Tires should be worn evenly side to side. If the rears are heavily worn on the inside (or even outside) edges that's a sign of an alignment problem. Budget for new tires and an alignment.

Brakes can be long lived -- my 2003 front brakes lasted around 120K miles -- but a 1mm lip around the outer edge of the rotor is a good sign the rotors are worn out.

Be sure the tires aren't too old. Porsche considers high performance tires to be past their replace by date after 6 years.

You can't do anything -- other than give the car reasonable care -- to avoid problems coming up as you drive the car. You just want to avoid if possible buying a car or paying too much for a car with issues. The car is probably still worth owning even if the water pump shows signs of leaking (for example) you just want to recognize the pump is leaking and work for a price adjustment.

Best of luck!

Macster

Posting a reply to your other questions to keep post size down some...

The biggest problem working on the Turbo engine (and this applies to the N/A water cooled engines) is unlike the 993 engine there is no reference for clearances/gaps/fits/etc. Porsche doesn't publish this info. So if you want to rebuild the Turbo engine yourself you are faced with the lack of critical info. Now there have been a few reports of Turbo engines being rebuilt but in these cases I think aftermarket parts are used -- pistons/rings, cylinder liners, etc. -- and the aftermarket company provides the info. Maybe.

If being able to do a bottom up rebuild is a must have for you you need to research this aspect of the Turbo engine. Since I have no interest in this level of engine work -- my engine rebuilding days are behind me -- I have not bothered to do an exhaustive search for what I would feel I would need to be comfortable tacking this.

But just some level of wrenching is doable, certainly. Many owners do their own oil/filter services (I've done those) and beyond that plugs, coils, brakes, even clutches and CV bearings and what have you.

Pretty much whatever you want to do -- well, within reason -- someone's done it and posted a pretty detailed how to with pics and explanations.

The car is pretty "bullet proof" to begin with. That is the engine and drive train/running gear.

What is not so bullet proof are other things. The spoiler system comes to mind certainly. The clutch accumulator/slave cylinder, too. I don't consider having to replace a water pump or a fuel pump or a coolant tank necessarily a sign of a bad design/implementation if you drive the car enough these will require replacement at some point.

I'm less forgiving when it comes to say radiators. The ones in my 2002 307K mile Boxster are original. The ones in my 2003 Turbo had to be replaced at 130K miles.

I'm less forgiving when it comes to RMS leaks. The replacement RMS in my Boxster -- replaced in July of 2002 -- has remained oil tight now ever since and with approx. 275K miles. The RMS in my 2003 Turbo had to be replaced at around the 120K mile mark.

I'm less forgiving when it comes to idler/tensioner roller bearings. The ones in my 2002 Boxster are original. The ones in my Turbo have been replaced two times now in around 150K miles.

My advice is to find a good car. One that passes a thorough used car test ride/drive and then afterwards a thorough used car inspection ideally followed by a PPI.

You want to buy a car that shows no signs of abuse, misuse, poor servicing and one that at least at the time you are looking at it doesn't have any serious issues, nothing that is a deal killer.

After you buy the car then my advice is to give it proper servicing, bring all the services up to date if they aren't already, then enjoy the car.

But you have to pay attention to the car. You can't, shouldn't at any rate, ignore what could be a noisy water pump or idle/tensioner roller bearing, or a leaking water pump, or a leaking anything really.

Not sure about preemptively doing something to try to make the car more bullet proof. I can point out in the case of my 2003 Turbo while I might have done something (though what I don't know) in an attempt to prevent a leaking spoiler, I would have also had to do something to prevent an RMS leak, front diff flange leak, a broken shifter, a leaking transmission, a leaking water pump, noisy idler/roller bearings, a leaking slave cylinder and a failed clutch accumulator, 3 leaking radiators, a whistling power steering high pressure bypass valve, even a leaking rear view mirror, a noisy A/C air flap motor, and cold start misfires.

Carlo_Carrera

More info here.

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-turb...-a-996-tt.html

jeanmarcboilard

http://rennkit.com/product-info/996turbo-eram/
This is the aftermarket repair kit. It's electric vs hydraulic. The creator is on here and his product has amazing reviews. If you get a car with the factory Aerokit, it comes with a fixed wing, no moving parts, no worries.

FRUNKenstein

Here is a decent review thread on the electric spoiler replacement kit (if I do say so myself):

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-turb...-eram-kit.html

TT Surgeon

Wrenching is very similar, I had a 930 and I find the 997tt easier to work on, just more electronics.
I'd say coolant pipes are the big thing, but nothing you can't handle.
Good hunting.

docboy

I didn't realize that a turbo with the factory Aerokit has a fixed wing.

If a spoiler is leaking (like mine is now) how would one convert it to a fixed wing? Is there an aftermarket fixed wing and a way to kill that spoiler warning light?

Back on topic OP, the 996tt/997tt Mezger engines are robust and reliable, probably never another engine like it ever. 997tt about $20-25k more than a 996tt. 996tt more analog feel, more "road taste;" 997tt more GT like, more modern yet linear interior, less analog feel IMHO.

Watch out for 2nd gear pop out and type 2 over revs... 997.1tt also has potential spun cam shaft issues.

Keep us posted...

DaveCarrera4

Do you have a car you are considering? My big recommendation is get all the paperwork from day one. These cars usually all have the engine dropped for various service items, knowing what was done is helpful in the decision process. Love and care is better than neglect and abuse.

NoogaSparrow

... have to say, really impressed with this community and how helpful everyone is.

Instead of people just yelling 'use the search function', everyone actually helps out!

Awesome! That is all...

Ohh, and welcome, I'm also in the hunt for a 996T, just waiting for the right one!

T10Chris

You can replace the decklid and wing with any sort of aftermarket setup (GT2, aerokit.. cup car, how wild do you want to get )..

It is easy to disable the light if you want to make the stock wing fixed or go with a true fixed wing setup. Ever since I gave you my microswitch trying to fix yours, I disabled the electronics on mine to lock my wing in raised position and no light.

TT Surgeon

Just need the aerokit wire harness, about 200.

drcheap

Had a 928 30 years ago. Bought a 996 May of this year, then drove a 996TT-996 NA now for sale and TT in my garage

Have had and have fast cars but not any suitable as daily drivers. Porsche is a fast, comfortable, under stated tourer that I'm in love with...