vbb

Ok, I'm willing to admit that perhaps $15k would be needed to just keep a 15 year old 100k mile car running properly, much less thinking about modding it for more power. If that's the case, then yeah, not the best idea.

I talked to my buddy who has the shop, and he also said he wouldn't buy an older higher mileage car with the goal of modifying it either. So perhaps the idea isn't the best.

911 Rod

I'm not too sure about that. A low mileage car might have the same problems as they don't like to sit and it will be the same age.

The mods will cost you the same for either one.

I'd go with a mid to higher mileage one that the interior and exterior have been taken care of.

T10Chris

If you buy the right car, you won't need $15k to keep it running... Just because miles are high doesn't mean it is a time bomb.

I've driven the crap out of my car since I bought it, almost daily even though I have another car, and I had zero failures until my first track day when I lost a coolant fitting (Fixed without removing the engine, in the pit area at track, and was able to drive it home). Other than that, I replaced the water pump because it was a little noisy (sign of impending failure) and had a very rare failure (per Kevin at UMW, only seen it twice) involving a variocam actuator.

Porsche designed these cars to be every day super cars and to be driven. Don't be afraid of miles.. Only be afraid of problems. No failure is guaranteed to happen at XXXXX time.

vbb

This is the mindset I had when I started the thread a few hours ago. If people think that cars have expiration dates based on mileage, let them think that. Good deals can spring from someone else's fears. Personally, I think it is silly that a 15 year old car with 25K miles is listed for (and probably will sell for) almost $20K more than a 15 year old car with 100K miles, as if somehow that 100K mile car will need $20K more work. If the 100K mile car was properly maintained, it SHOULD be reliable assuming the new owner also maintains it, and if the 25K mile car sat in a garage for months at a time and wasn't driven and didn't have regular fluid changes, it may actually be more of a maintenance headache than the higher mileage car. I know this. Most people on rennlist probably know this. But the general buying public only sees the mileage, and will overpay to get lower miles.

So I agree with you.

But the majority of the replies to my original question seem to be that spending $15K on modifications would not be money well spent... but that I'd be better off saving the $15K for repairs or wear and tear items. That was not the question I was asking, but those are the answers I got. And even my buddy who runs a shop sort of cautioned the same thing.

Bottom line, I could find a great car or a problematic one, whether it has 100K miles or 25K. Even with a PPI, I may never know. But what I do know is this... I think I'd rather buy a higher mileage car and use the "savings" on modifications to the car than buy a lower mileage car at the top of my budget, because both cars are going to need maintenance. My buddy suggested that what I really need to do is just keep my base 997.2 and track it rather than buy a more powerful car and mod it up to 500 horse, but then not ever really get to use it. It's the whole "more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow" motto... and really, is 350hp in a 3000lbs car really all that slow?

As usual, I'm torn.

Road King

I don't believe you need to spend $15K to mod a stock car to make it both faster and more personalized. You can do it for around $5-7K if you don't go overboard. I don't have the time to have a 'continual car project', so I did all my mods up front and now just enjoy the $hit out of the car every time I drive it.

Perhaps you can ride/drive a few 996 Turbos to get a feel for what to expect...I think that will help you make your decision.

I have no regrets about buying a 996 Turbo and although I don't have much free time to put a lot of miles on my car (have a 1 and 3yr old) but I'm not fretting over the mileage that does add up (approaching 49K miles). It's not really about the 500hp, but more about the explosive midrange torque that rockets the car out of corners. That's what does it for me anyway.

911mhawk

$10-15k is a good amount to have in reserve for any turbo you purchase, no matter what the mileage. I bought a really clean one with a factory new engine but ended up throwing more than your "reserve" at a new transmission and I'm not the only one here to have done that. At the end of the day, older and once very expensive sports cars involve some risk. Go with your gut and it's ability to handle surprises. Gut=bank account

vbb

The fear of a $15K repair is exactly why higher mileage TTs command so much less money. People feel like that $15K (or more) transmission failure, or "engine out" event is lurking around the corner.

I could definitely stretch my budget and get into a 997.1TT with 40K-50K miles for somewhere around $65K. I actually test drove exactly such a car. While I liked the car and its 480hp, especially when the salesman let me open it up on an empty straight and long sweeping turn, I did not walk away from the test drive feeling like I HAD TO HAVE IT. My 345hp 997.2 with an upgraded suspension actually felt almost as fun to drive, and for far less money.

So then I thought hey, maybe I'll check out the 996TT because it is cheaper to start with, and then I can have some play money to make it go faster and handle better than the 997.1TT that I test drove. And here I am. I guess it is irrelevant to the question what my budget actually is... whether I'm prepared to spend $40K, $50K, $60K or whatever. Of course it is relevant to me... but to you guys it wasn't about "how much should I pay for a 996TT?" That's another question. It was about "what would YOU do if you had $10K-$15K to spend on modifications to a stock, higher mileage 996TT?" When most people said they'd bank the money to prepare for problems, I guess it told me what I needed to know.

Dock

I agree, but lean more towards the $15k end of the recommendation.

gophaster

I agree with this line of thinking. These cars offer pretty amazing performance in stock form. Have you driven a stock 996TT yet? Not just around the block but on highway at speed with a couple decent pulls?

I don't think you have to spend $15k on one of these to have some serious fun. I think with a new (slightly more aggressive) suspension... think Pss10's or H&R Street coilovers, a nice performance alignment, free flowing exhaust, and maybe a tune you can have a pretty awesome all around car.

Getting a very low mileage car does not guarantee a trouble free car at all. A car with really low miles, say under 35k miles or so has seen less than 3000 miles per year. That car may have only seen a few thousand miles while still under warranty. There may be a few things that should have failed while it was under warranty but since it had been driven so little those things have not failed yet. lol ... You could have zero issues or maybe there are a few major things about to go wrong!!

Personally, I want to see documented maintenance on a car. For me the sweet spot for 996TT is about 50-80k miles or so with lots and lots of records. Preferably a 1-2 owner car (better chances of full records). I prefer to buy stone cold stock but if you are looking to do a few mods anyway perhaps you can find one with some of the things you'd like to do already. ... In this case, you could have zero issues or maybe there are a few major things about to go wrong!! (I'm sure you noticed what I did there...lol)

Anyway, good luck with your search/decision and I hope you find the perfect 996TT

leftlane

Lol I read this thread that you wanted to spend $15k to buy a higher mileage car - I clicked ready to tell you that you were crazy

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996SPECticle

MT/Coupes I assume? I think the theoretical best deal out there has 55-75K miles, with fresh clutch and 60K tune up service including coil packs+ receipts for other things. Finding this for ~$45k or a bit less is only limited by location.

On average I think one of the last things to get changed is the suspension so I would start there with high miles. DIY is possible. Maybe get some adjustable coilovers and you can spend months tweaking and learning the subtle changes available and get supple touring or stiff track day set up. Cost $1200-$5000+ depending. Having PASM adds to the cost.
1-2 times a year tracking? Not enough for dedicated tires/wheels, if you get into it more though, a set of near stickers is nice to swap just so you don't wear them out just cruising around.

A flash tune and exhaust would round out the basics. Lots of cars have these already and its a toss up of sellers, some think it automatically bumps price others don't, it is so dependant on who and what for the components. Some claiming 6-700hp scare me off.

Bigger turbos sound good for more top end but I find it interesting that some have said they didn't like the extra lag they bring , I don't recall anyone removing them because of it though. 400+hp as common has spoiled today's Porschephile.

For ****s and grins for the DIYer, start adding all the GT2 specific bits here and there.

993GT

make sure PM/preventative maintenance is done including pinning/welding and an intake pressure test, then,
=proper seats
=GT2/3 front uprights and upper mounts---rwd convert, coilovers to match, monoball everything....aligned
=LSD,
=GT2 clutch hydraulics, 997 or similar shifter,
=X50/GT2 IC's or 997.2 if budget allows...
List varies greatly if doing own work or paying for labour...

powdrhound

Skip the power mods. Car has plenty of power stock, maybe spend a few bucks on a tune if you can't sleep at night knowing you only have 420. Most get all hung up on hp bragging right at Cars and Coffee when in reality pretty much every 700hp Turbo that shows up at the track will get smoked by a 200hp Boxster with a competent driver. Seen it a million times. Brings people down to earth in a hurry. If you want a fun weekend car that you can track several time yeah year I would:

1. Pin or weld your coolant pipes (required by many PCA clubs now) = $2-3K
2. Install proper seats that will give you more support that the stock sofas = $1.5-4K
3. LSD. This will give you more performance that any HP increase you can do. = $2-4K
4. Suspension (H&R RSS is great bang for the buck) + adjustable sways. = $3K
5. Brake ducting to improve the stock inadequate cooling. = $500
6. Fresh fluids = $300
7. Performance alignment = $300
8. Track pads = $800
9. Driver coaching = $1k

That puts you at about $15-17K, few grand cheaper if you do some of the labor...

vbb

Thanks again for the replies and the lists. It seems that there are some preventative things that ought to be done (I'm learning more and more about the coolant piping on these cars), and of course I'd need to spend whatever is necessary to make sure the car is mechanically sound. I think my first plan of modification would be the suspension, and the H&R RSS seems a good way to go. I have H&R springs and front and rear sways on my 997.2 now, so that's a company I trust.

As for extra power, all the experienced track guys say the same thing... a good driver is going to be fast with an underpowered car, and a bad driver is going to be slow no matter how much HP he has. This is why I need to drive a stock 996 Turbo. I guess my goal of 500hp was more due to the fact that I drove a 997.1TT with its 480hp a few weeks ago and I felt that was a good power figure. With the 996 being at 415, I wanted to bring it up to the 997 power level, and wanted it to feel significantly faster than my current 997.2. My head tells me that 500 (or even 400, or 300hp) is basically useless, because it's not like I can legally use that on the streets and I'm not skilled enough on the track to need more power either... but my heart tells me more HP is the goal!

I do appreciate the feedback though. It seems prudent that I at least devote a portion of the budget to preventative/maintenance issues even though whatever I buy would have to have a clean PPI.

911 Rod

Start shopping for a car as the one you find that you like will dictate what you need/want to do to it.