Actual First Year cost of 996 turbo ownership
11-19-2015, 07:15 PM
#62
I don't have my costs handy, and year one was very low (just the 40,000 service IIRC) but I've averaged about 7,000 miles a year over 5 years with mine. Maintenance cost has been around US$2000 a year, including services and their associated consumables, excluding brake pads and tires. Since year one she's done an hour or two a year on track (mostly club sprints, some DEs - and in the last year or two a little more, with up to about 5 track hours this last year).
Most of my track time over that period has been bits and pieces in other cars (mix of V8s, wings and slicks single seaters, and 2KCup (think chumpcar) and motorbikes, but it developed my driving enough to want to give the Turbo a birthday after about 3 years of ownership - basically tune, exhaust and some associated reliability tweaks. Combined it with a scheduled major service, went with a quality UMW tune and got some great deals on parts to pull off the upgrade for under $4000.
With decent research, I sometimes even found superior parts at cheaper prices than stock (eg quality slotted rotors versus the drilled originals that crack too easily when worked on track).
Everyone has different hot buttons when it comes to their ownership. For some it is originality, for some it is show and shine, for some it is just the satisfaction of going about their daily lives ensconced in some of the best engineering the planet has to offer, for some it is a resale investment, for some it is creating the ultimate outlaw, for some it is about the quarter mile. And for some others, it is primarily about dancing with the car, whether in canyons or on track. That's more my bent, and while I look to keep mine road optimised, I'm also addicted to hunting GT3s and GTRs on track every now and again.
We've all got different perspectives, with more or less overlap, but the great thing about cars like ours is that they pretty much have all those bases covered, and at running costs which mean we don't really have to think twice about going out to play.
Last edited by 996tnz; 11-19-2015 at 08:22 PM.
11-19-2015, 11:19 PM
#63
12 months. 2000 miles. $250 oil change. That's it.
11-20-2015, 07:08 AM
#64
Three Wheelin'
11-20-2015, 11:58 AM
#65
Rennlist Member
Well said! I am hoping that after another 3 or 4 years racing my bmw at HPDE's, I will be ready to handle the additional power and speed of throwing the TT out there with the big boys while being able to actually drive thanks to the time spent in the low hp car....
Anytime I buy a euro car, I mentally allow another third on top of the purchase price in case there is something major to sort out (even PPIs don't always catch that). Only had to go that far once (transmission on an older Audi allroad, but caught in PPI so price taken off asking anyway).
I don't have my costs handy, and year one was very low (just the 40,000 service IIRC) but I've averaged about 7,000 miles a year over 5 years with mine. Maintenance cost has been around US$2000 a year, including services and their associated consumables, excluding brake pads and tires. Since year one she's done an hour or two a year on track (mostly club sprints, some DEs - and in the last year or two a little more, with up to about 5 track hours this last year).
Most of my track time over that period has been bits and pieces in other cars (mix of V8s, wings and slicks single seaters, and 2KCup (think chumpcar) and motorbikes, but it developed my driving enough to want to give the Turbo a birthday after about 3 years of ownership - basically tune, exhaust and some associated reliability tweaks. Combined it with a scheduled major service, went with a quality UMW tune and got some great deals on parts to pull off the upgrade for under $4000.
With decent research, I sometimes even found superior parts at cheaper prices than stock (eg quality slotted rotors versus the drilled originals that crack too easily when worked on track).
Everyone has different hot buttons when it comes to their ownership. For some it is originality, for some it is show and shine, for some it is just the satisfaction of going about their daily lives ensconced in some of the best engineering the planet has to offer, for some it is a resale investment, for some it is creating the ultimate outlaw, for some it is about the quarter mile. And for some others, it is primarily about dancing with the car, whether in canyons or on track. That's more my bent, and while I look to keep mine road optimised, I'm also addicted to hunting GT3s and GTRs on track every now and again.
We've all got different perspectives, with more or less overlap, but the great thing about cars like ours is that they pretty much have all those bases covered, and at running costs which mean we don't really have to think twice about going out to play.
I don't have my costs handy, and year one was very low (just the 40,000 service IIRC) but I've averaged about 7,000 miles a year over 5 years with mine. Maintenance cost has been around US$2000 a year, including services and their associated consumables, excluding brake pads and tires. Since year one she's done an hour or two a year on track (mostly club sprints, some DEs - and in the last year or two a little more, with up to about 5 track hours this last year).
Most of my track time over that period has been bits and pieces in other cars (mix of V8s, wings and slicks single seaters, and 2KCup (think chumpcar) and motorbikes, but it developed my driving enough to want to give the Turbo a birthday after about 3 years of ownership - basically tune, exhaust and some associated reliability tweaks. Combined it with a scheduled major service, went with a quality UMW tune and got some great deals on parts to pull off the upgrade for under $4000.
With decent research, I sometimes even found superior parts at cheaper prices than stock (eg quality slotted rotors versus the drilled originals that crack too easily when worked on track).
Everyone has different hot buttons when it comes to their ownership. For some it is originality, for some it is show and shine, for some it is just the satisfaction of going about their daily lives ensconced in some of the best engineering the planet has to offer, for some it is a resale investment, for some it is creating the ultimate outlaw, for some it is about the quarter mile. And for some others, it is primarily about dancing with the car, whether in canyons or on track. That's more my bent, and while I look to keep mine road optimised, I'm also addicted to hunting GT3s and GTRs on track every now and again.
We've all got different perspectives, with more or less overlap, but the great thing about cars like ours is that they pretty much have all those bases covered, and at running costs which mean we don't really have to think twice about going out to play.
11-22-2015, 02:28 AM
#66
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Anytime I buy a euro car, I mentally allow another third on top of the purchase price in case there is something major to sort out (even PPIs don't always catch that). Only had to go that far once (transmission on an older Audi allroad, but caught in PPI so price taken off asking anyway).
I don't have my costs handy, and year one was very low (just the 40,000 service IIRC) but I've averaged about 7,000 miles a year over 5 years with mine. Maintenance cost has been around US$2000 a year, including services and their associated consumables, excluding brake pads and tires. Since year one she's done an hour or two a year on track (mostly club sprints, some DEs - and in the last year or two a little more, with up to about 5 track hours this last year).
Most of my track time over that period has been bits and pieces in
other cars (mix of V8s, wings and slicks single seaters, and 2KCup (think chumpcar) and motorbikes, but it developed my driving enough to want to give the Turbo a birthday after about 3 years of
ownership - basically tune, exhaust and some associated reliability tweaks. Combined it with a scheduled major service, went with a quality UMW tune and got some great deals on parts to pull off the upgrade for under $4000.
With decent research, I sometimes even found superior parts at
cheaper prices than stock (eg quality slotted rotors versus the drilled originals that crack too easily when worked on track).
Everyone has different hot buttons when it comes to their ownership. For some it is originality, for some it is show and shine, for some it is just the satisfaction of going about their daily lives ensconced in some of the best engineering the planet has to offer, for some it is a resale investment, for some it is creating the ultimate outlaw, for
some it is about the quarter mile. And for some others, it is primarily about dancing with the car, whether in canyons or on track. That's more my bent, and while I look to keep mine road optimised, I'm also addicted to hunting GT3s and GTRs on track every now and again.
We've all got different perspectives, with more or less overlap, but the great thing about cars like ours is that they pretty much have all those bases covered, and at running costs which mean we don't really have to think twice about going out to play.
I don't have my costs handy, and year one was very low (just the 40,000 service IIRC) but I've averaged about 7,000 miles a year over 5 years with mine. Maintenance cost has been around US$2000 a year, including services and their associated consumables, excluding brake pads and tires. Since year one she's done an hour or two a year on track (mostly club sprints, some DEs - and in the last year or two a little more, with up to about 5 track hours this last year).
Most of my track time over that period has been bits and pieces in
other cars (mix of V8s, wings and slicks single seaters, and 2KCup (think chumpcar) and motorbikes, but it developed my driving enough to want to give the Turbo a birthday after about 3 years of
ownership - basically tune, exhaust and some associated reliability tweaks. Combined it with a scheduled major service, went with a quality UMW tune and got some great deals on parts to pull off the upgrade for under $4000.
With decent research, I sometimes even found superior parts at
cheaper prices than stock (eg quality slotted rotors versus the drilled originals that crack too easily when worked on track).
Everyone has different hot buttons when it comes to their ownership. For some it is originality, for some it is show and shine, for some it is just the satisfaction of going about their daily lives ensconced in some of the best engineering the planet has to offer, for some it is a resale investment, for some it is creating the ultimate outlaw, for
some it is about the quarter mile. And for some others, it is primarily about dancing with the car, whether in canyons or on track. That's more my bent, and while I look to keep mine road optimised, I'm also addicted to hunting GT3s and GTRs on track every now and again.
We've all got different perspectives, with more or less overlap, but the great thing about cars like ours is that they pretty much have all those bases covered, and at running costs which mean we don't really have to think twice about going out to play.
If not, you should before going back out to hunt others on the track.
The oil in these goes to the rear under acceleration leaving gears starving for lube and there's no cooler like the track oriented gt2/3 has to keep the fluid from cooking either. Do yourself a favor and put one in now so that you spend $1k less at rebuild time doing it, unless of course you have one! You may also save your transmission from burning up a few extra parts by doing this, ask me how I know.
The parts cost on these transmissions can exceed that of a lesser "track" car in it's entirety if built nice.
How many miles are on your car and do you know if it was tracked before you?
12-15-2015, 07:44 PM
#67
Do you have an oil cooler in your ride?
If not, you should before going back out to hunt others on the track.
The oil in these goes to the rear under acceleration leaving gears starving for lube and there's no cooler like the track oriented gt2/3 has to keep the fluid from cooking either. Do yourself a favor and put one in now so that you spend $1k less at rebuild time doing it, unless of course you have one! You may also save your transmission from burning up a few extra parts by doing this, ask me how I know.
The parts cost on these transmissions can exceed that of a lesser "track" car in it's entirety if built nice.
How many miles are on your car and do you know if it was tracked before you?
If not, you should before going back out to hunt others on the track.
The oil in these goes to the rear under acceleration leaving gears starving for lube and there's no cooler like the track oriented gt2/3 has to keep the fluid from cooking either. Do yourself a favor and put one in now so that you spend $1k less at rebuild time doing it, unless of course you have one! You may also save your transmission from burning up a few extra parts by doing this, ask me how I know.
The parts cost on these transmissions can exceed that of a lesser "track" car in it's entirety if built nice.
How many miles are on your car and do you know if it was tracked before you?
Got her around 42 thousand miles and now she's around 75 or so. Not tracked previously to my knowledge (original spec, tidy paint, factory pads etc). Since getting the silly glued in coolant fittings properly secured, she's been 100% reliable, bar a fuel pump that considerately waited until after my track day to instead die on the freeway on ramp right next to the track. Made for an interesting conversation with my car recovery insurer as I'm covered for road only but they looked after me.
My other two track cars are manuals so I know how to row BTW
12-29-2015, 03:39 AM
#69
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Good point and thanks for the heads up. Given the chance I'd have one 996T for the city commute and one for canyons and track but mine does double duty so she's a Tiptonic (the 996T's later tiptronic S with 200ms shift times and 250 dynamic shift maps) and comes with the factory transmission fluid cooler. That said, a poor previous repair (before my time someone had used liquid gasket instead of a cut one between the transmission and the transfer case, stuffing up the gap distance and hence the preload on the bearings) saw me get her tranny rebuilt with heavier duty frictions, upgrade springs etc so she should be up to the job, though I may yet add a second cooler as and when I take her over 600HP down the track.
Got her around 42 thousand miles and now she's around 75 or so. Not tracked previously to my knowledge (original spec, tidy paint,
factory pads etc). Since getting the silly glued in coolant fittings properly secured, she's been 100% reliable, bar a fuel pump that considerately waited until after my track day to instead die on the freeway on ramp right next to the track. Made for an interesting conversation with my car recovery insurer as I'm covered for road only but they looked after me.
My other two track cars are manuals so I know how to row BTW
Got her around 42 thousand miles and now she's around 75 or so. Not tracked previously to my knowledge (original spec, tidy paint,
factory pads etc). Since getting the silly glued in coolant fittings properly secured, she's been 100% reliable, bar a fuel pump that considerately waited until after my track day to instead die on the freeway on ramp right next to the track. Made for an interesting conversation with my car recovery insurer as I'm covered for road only but they looked after me.
My other two track cars are manuals so I know how to row BTW
Last time I checked, a PS or water pump, alternator, clutch slave, set of shocks, etc. are all about $500 in parts before you put it in yourself and skip any corresponding preventative care. Cool to see there are so many DIYers here and only one or two that ever needed a clutch. I can see where those scenarios really reduce maintenance cost!
Now that it's Winter, maybe some who regularly drive the turbo will shed some light on maintenance they catch up on before the nice weather hits?
I haven't quite had mine a year and really appreciate the resource this site provides. Anyone who has a detail question that my engine out maintenance would be helpful with, please ask. I'm happy to provide pics or PN's from hard to see areas for those it would help.
12-29-2015, 06:03 AM
#70
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@132,500 miles i find i spend thousands a year just messing with it, or adding stuff, e.g. 2 two sets of rears per annum. something always adds up to several per year. rain or shine, it's just cost to entry.
this all without a great deal spent on cosmetics. if all goes as planned this year, then i have 3-4k in parts planned ( ic's possibly injectors w new cobb tune ) and another 4k in a new front w paint. 12/15 alone was just under 1k on some painted stuff.
mine is a canyon warrior exclusively, and i want to be able stay astonishingly ahead of, or alternately stay RIGHT on top of any gt2/3/tt i find up here. i know the territory better than most, and the truth is many just give up after a few hair-raising moments all while following safely our much vaunted and important "basic speed law".
this all without a great deal spent on cosmetics. if all goes as planned this year, then i have 3-4k in parts planned ( ic's possibly injectors w new cobb tune ) and another 4k in a new front w paint. 12/15 alone was just under 1k on some painted stuff.
mine is a canyon warrior exclusively, and i want to be able stay astonishingly ahead of, or alternately stay RIGHT on top of any gt2/3/tt i find up here. i know the territory better than most, and the truth is many just give up after a few hair-raising moments all while following safely our much vaunted and important "basic speed law".
09-06-2016, 02:18 AM
#71
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Since there are recent posts about buying these cars and some wonder what to expect, this post resurrection could help since may had less costly experiences than me!
May also help those seeking solace after a similar experience, whether self inflicted by going nuts on upgrades, or, having to choke down a few big repairs.
When I originally posted this last November, I had just sent my transmission out to Brian Copans for a rebuild and he hadn't got into it yet. My "educated guesstimate" was off by another $8k or so by the time all was done. I decided to go with a LSD, had ALL the bearings replaced, and ALL the gears, some sleeves and retaining plate that a shot bearing ate into...
This year however, has been very similar to some of the responses I got, meaning tires and oil. I'm sure there's some items I'm forgetting(other than the year isn't over) but suffice to say the miles I've done this summer have been cheap.
May also help those seeking solace after a similar experience, whether self inflicted by going nuts on upgrades, or, having to choke down a few big repairs.
When I originally posted this last November, I had just sent my transmission out to Brian Copans for a rebuild and he hadn't got into it yet. My "educated guesstimate" was off by another $8k or so by the time all was done. I decided to go with a LSD, had ALL the bearings replaced, and ALL the gears, some sleeves and retaining plate that a shot bearing ate into...
This year however, has been very similar to some of the responses I got, meaning tires and oil. I'm sure there's some items I'm forgetting(other than the year isn't over) but suffice to say the miles I've done this summer have been cheap.
09-06-2016, 05:08 AM
#72
Track Day
Join Date: May 2015
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I purchased my 2001 speed yellow MT in August 2016 (88,000km) and so far I have the following issues tackled:-
-driver side window did not drop and raise back to original position after closing door
-replaced front wheel bearings ($500)
-installed Ohlins suspension (came with pss9 but I found out it was leaking and car was way too harsh to drive) ($2500)
-oil change
-spark plugs(car was always choking at 1500rpm)
On the other hand, some of the outstanding items that are not yet resolved:-
-found out that my evaporator was leaking refrigerant one month after ownership (totally not cool!)
- leaking in one of the rear spoiler rams
- airbag failure light (ignition circuit, driver side code 21)
- oil pressure failure indicator (occassional)
- my clutch reservoir is spilling out Pentosin every now and then. Some fluid migration from steering wheel to front clutch reservoir
- passenger side sun visor mirror lid fell apart
Now don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed second of driving in this car...it's my first 911 and the turbo has always been a dream car since college...this forum has also been super helpful... but it still sucks to discover minor things that needs to be repaired....
Since summer is over, I intend to drive the car for a bit first before spending money on fixing the evaporator(too costly) and other minor issues. Also, does anyone know what could be done to fix the driver side circuit failure? Some mentioned it was the clock spring but I wasn't sure.
The clutch is another sensitive subject. Been thinking about what to do with it. Would you guys recommend the bbi slave cylinder? OEM? or GT2 conversion? Any thoughts?
-driver side window did not drop and raise back to original position after closing door
-replaced front wheel bearings ($500)
-installed Ohlins suspension (came with pss9 but I found out it was leaking and car was way too harsh to drive) ($2500)
-oil change
-spark plugs(car was always choking at 1500rpm)
On the other hand, some of the outstanding items that are not yet resolved:-
-found out that my evaporator was leaking refrigerant one month after ownership (totally not cool!)
- leaking in one of the rear spoiler rams
- airbag failure light (ignition circuit, driver side code 21)
- oil pressure failure indicator (occassional)
- my clutch reservoir is spilling out Pentosin every now and then. Some fluid migration from steering wheel to front clutch reservoir
- passenger side sun visor mirror lid fell apart
Now don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed second of driving in this car...it's my first 911 and the turbo has always been a dream car since college...this forum has also been super helpful... but it still sucks to discover minor things that needs to be repaired....
Since summer is over, I intend to drive the car for a bit first before spending money on fixing the evaporator(too costly) and other minor issues. Also, does anyone know what could be done to fix the driver side circuit failure? Some mentioned it was the clock spring but I wasn't sure.
The clutch is another sensitive subject. Been thinking about what to do with it. Would you guys recommend the bbi slave cylinder? OEM? or GT2 conversion? Any thoughts?
09-06-2016, 07:53 AM
#73
- oil pressure failure indicator (occassional)
- my clutch reservoir is spilling out Pentosin every now and then. Some fluid migration from steering wheel to front clutch reservoir
- passenger side sun visor mirror lid fell apart
The clutch is another sensitive subject. Been thinking about what to do with it. Would you guys recommend the bbi slave cylinder? OEM? or GT2 conversion? Any thoughts?
- my clutch reservoir is spilling out Pentosin every now and then. Some fluid migration from steering wheel to front clutch reservoir
- passenger side sun visor mirror lid fell apart
The clutch is another sensitive subject. Been thinking about what to do with it. Would you guys recommend the bbi slave cylinder? OEM? or GT2 conversion? Any thoughts?
if there is fluid migration, the slave is toast. last time i replaced the slave/accumulator was years ago. given it still holds pressure even after sitting for a week? i must've gotten got a "lucky" accumulator this time.
if i was going to replace again today, i'd probably just get the bbi part. why bother with tap and drill if a part is a bolt on and serves the same purpose?
funny, my pass side mirror flap also just failed. which just reminds me of all the women that have mishandled it ha.
09-06-2016, 12:55 PM
#74
Track Day
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Austin, TX
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Just chiming in, I'm probably not the typical weather vain for this thread but I purchased my 2001 996t with 90K on the clock and she's been very good, so far one oil change and complete brake job. I did the brakes myself and all the parts including the new sensors etc were just under 1000.00. I had her out on the track for the first time this past weekend, very mild driving, and with the exception of getting about 7 MPG she was a gem. VERY occasionally, like twice in 2000 miles the shifter pops out of second gear but I'm not going to tear down the trans for that, I figure there are 5 more gears I can use :-)
09-18-2017, 05:04 PM
#75
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Update in case you just got yours, my 2017 has been relatively inexpensive:
YTD= Tires, oil, filters, and brake pads.
Once sorted they are much more fun to own!
YTD= Tires, oil, filters, and brake pads.
Once sorted they are much more fun to own!