Actual First Year cost of 996 turbo ownership
11-09-2015, 02:38 AM
#31
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by 911mhawk View Post
More on the "stock" car BS some other time...
Anyone else want to share their fun?
My comment on the "stock" car relates to the amount of times I've seen people concerned about buying one of these and getting the best most "unmolested" example. People recently recommended keeping the OEM steering wheel, and previously, keep your old/stock parts too in the interest of the next buyer. The reason I said "stock" is BS is that you could be looking at a car that's seen more hard miles in a couple years than some owners would ever do in a couple decades. Someone could buy a "stock" car for what they feel is a reasonable sum and wind up with expensive repairs that may not have seemed likely based on a cars mileage.
Many of these cars have seen 5+ owners and have sketchy records. It takes attention to detail to see the extra nicks and scratches that parts/bolts/fittings get from coming apart and going back together multiple times. Cars are pretty easy to swap parts around on and in a couple days you can change a lot.
My issue with the 996 turbo and other cars with significant HP gains from removable mods is that you may be dating a prom queen that just got out of rehab. Imaging buying one that someone just reverted back to "stock", only to find that it had been tuned to over 600hp, or just poorly tuned from stock, and you get to experience the last few miles of use from what was just previously a ticking bomb.
Just my .02 about what people say is "stock" and for the prospective buyer to get the full picture if they can. Otherwise, you're taking chances with unforeseen repairs. Pickle=Stock
That being said, I could have looked longer for a car with the mods I want, the color combo, etc...
Problem is, I thought that this car would be enough for a while longer than it was. Drive a normal/electric/hybrid S box more often and these will seem faster and sharper handling.
Originally Posted by 911mhawk View Post
More on the "stock" car BS some other time...
Anyone else want to share their fun?
Oh, let's talk about it now. I think you've got enough people revved up to have a good discussion.
My understanding, based on opinions in here, is that mods turn a car into a piece of track garbage, no matter the actual amount of track time or car's condition. Roll cage and a tune = bad news
Now I understand that you are enjoying your car, but the thread topic is words of wisdom for the guy shopping for a 996tt.
It appears that you paid a reasonable price for a stock X50 car with a nearly new motor. But then you modded it up, therefore turning it into a low value piece of track crap (BTW - welcome to Club Mod, motto "if stock is so freaking great, why did they build the GT2?").
So, why not find one already with quality mods and save yourself $10k+ on the purchase price and the cost of doing all those mods? It appears to me that people pay a premium for stock, then mod right away, only to remove the mods before selling to represent the car as being unmolested (and therefore more valuable).
My understanding, based on opinions in here, is that mods turn a car into a piece of track garbage, no matter the actual amount of track time or car's condition. Roll cage and a tune = bad news
Now I understand that you are enjoying your car, but the thread topic is words of wisdom for the guy shopping for a 996tt.
It appears that you paid a reasonable price for a stock X50 car with a nearly new motor. But then you modded it up, therefore turning it into a low value piece of track crap (BTW - welcome to Club Mod, motto "if stock is so freaking great, why did they build the GT2?").
So, why not find one already with quality mods and save yourself $10k+ on the purchase price and the cost of doing all those mods? It appears to me that people pay a premium for stock, then mod right away, only to remove the mods before selling to represent the car as being unmolested (and therefore more valuable).
Many of these cars have seen 5+ owners and have sketchy records. It takes attention to detail to see the extra nicks and scratches that parts/bolts/fittings get from coming apart and going back together multiple times. Cars are pretty easy to swap parts around on and in a couple days you can change a lot.
My issue with the 996 turbo and other cars with significant HP gains from removable mods is that you may be dating a prom queen that just got out of rehab. Imaging buying one that someone just reverted back to "stock", only to find that it had been tuned to over 600hp, or just poorly tuned from stock, and you get to experience the last few miles of use from what was just previously a ticking bomb.
Just my .02 about what people say is "stock" and for the prospective buyer to get the full picture if they can. Otherwise, you're taking chances with unforeseen repairs. Pickle=Stock
That being said, I could have looked longer for a car with the mods I want, the color combo, etc...
Problem is, I thought that this car would be enough for a while longer than it was. Drive a normal/electric/hybrid S box more often and these will seem faster and sharper handling.
11-09-2015, 03:09 AM
#32
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
How about a completely stock and reliable 996tt as well as a dedicated track car for track days? That is the route I am trying to maintain, as you have proven that the 996tt is not the most affordable car to turn into a track machine and dare I say not very suitable either.
What I have come to realize is that modifications have sacrifices, which can slowly turn an amazing road car into an unbearable and unreliable track car. These cars were $140K when they were new because of the innovative technology and blistering speed while maintaining relative comfort. Changing the dynamics of them usually leads to negative tradeoffs which is why the modifications usually decrease value in the used market.
For every pwdrhound (with an incredible purpose built machine), there are a hundred folks with half modified cars having overheating issues on the side of the track because the 450 ft lbs of torque didnt get them from turn 1 to turn 2 fast enough or busted coolant fittings or trans issues or a multitude of other very expensive ailments. A race car is going to break (frequently), and is going to be expensive to fix, there is no surprises there. But there are better cars to build for that purpose in my humble opinion, while keeping this absolutely amazing piece of machinery how Stuttgart intended.
I am new to the scene as having purchased my car in the last 6 months, so I apologize if I took your OP the wrong way. I am definitely not new to an addiction to car parts hoarding and always trying to improve lap times at the sake of street manners. I still have yet to win a HPDE yet though.
What I have come to realize is that modifications have sacrifices, which can slowly turn an amazing road car into an unbearable and unreliable track car. These cars were $140K when they were new because of the innovative technology and blistering speed while maintaining relative comfort. Changing the dynamics of them usually leads to negative tradeoffs which is why the modifications usually decrease value in the used market.
For every pwdrhound (with an incredible purpose built machine), there are a hundred folks with half modified cars having overheating issues on the side of the track because the 450 ft lbs of torque didnt get them from turn 1 to turn 2 fast enough or busted coolant fittings or trans issues or a multitude of other very expensive ailments. A race car is going to break (frequently), and is going to be expensive to fix, there is no surprises there. But there are better cars to build for that purpose in my humble opinion, while keeping this absolutely amazing piece of machinery how Stuttgart intended.
I am new to the scene as having purchased my car in the last 6 months, so I apologize if I took your OP the wrong way. I am definitely not new to an addiction to car parts hoarding and always trying to improve lap times at the sake of street manners. I still have yet to win a HPDE yet though.
A second one in Tiptronic with a nice patina of dog hair, coffee stains, dings, and lip gloss tubes from the PO would be a good DD that I'd enjoy parking up tight to SUV's with so I could drive one every day. I'm thinking a stock one that has all the records and is priced low because the owner realizes it has over 100k on the odo? Could justify it to the wife by having her drive it most of the time in the name of fuel economy.
11-09-2015, 09:53 AM
#33
Nordschleife Master
How about a completely stock and reliable 996tt as well as a dedicated track car for track days? That is the route I am trying to maintain, as you have proven that the 996tt is not the most affordable car to turn into a track machine and dare I say not very suitable either.
What I have come to realize is that modifications have sacrifices, which can slowly turn an amazing road car into an unbearable and unreliable track car. These cars were $140K when they were new because of the innovative technology and blistering speed while maintaining relative comfort. Changing the dynamics of them usually leads to negative tradeoffs which is why the modifications usually decrease value in the used market.
For every pwdrhound (with an incredible purpose built machine), there are a hundred folks with half modified cars having overheating issues on the side of the track because the 450 ft lbs of torque didnt get them from turn 1 to turn 2 fast enough or busted coolant fittings or trans issues or a multitude of other very expensive ailments. A race car is going to break (frequently), and is going to be expensive to fix, there is no surprises there. But there are better cars to build for that purpose in my humble opinion, while keeping this absolutely amazing piece of machinery how Stuttgart intended.
I am new to the scene as having purchased my car in the last 6 months, so I apologize if I took your OP the wrong way. I am definitely not new to an addiction to car parts hoarding and always trying to improve lap times at the sake of street manners. I still have yet to win a HPDE yet though.
What I have come to realize is that modifications have sacrifices, which can slowly turn an amazing road car into an unbearable and unreliable track car. These cars were $140K when they were new because of the innovative technology and blistering speed while maintaining relative comfort. Changing the dynamics of them usually leads to negative tradeoffs which is why the modifications usually decrease value in the used market.
For every pwdrhound (with an incredible purpose built machine), there are a hundred folks with half modified cars having overheating issues on the side of the track because the 450 ft lbs of torque didnt get them from turn 1 to turn 2 fast enough or busted coolant fittings or trans issues or a multitude of other very expensive ailments. A race car is going to break (frequently), and is going to be expensive to fix, there is no surprises there. But there are better cars to build for that purpose in my humble opinion, while keeping this absolutely amazing piece of machinery how Stuttgart intended.
I am new to the scene as having purchased my car in the last 6 months, so I apologize if I took your OP the wrong way. I am definitely not new to an addiction to car parts hoarding and always trying to improve lap times at the sake of street manners. I still have yet to win a HPDE yet though.
Suspensions and brakes are required to take it beyond beginner level. These can be done keeping it a street able track car, mind you there are no buttons to make it soft or hard in an instant like the newer cars.
Add R compounds and an exhaust to this setup and this car is pretty much on the same level as 997.2 gt3's, 997.2 turbos and GTR's.
11-09-2015, 10:26 AM
#34
Nordschleife Master
I got my 01 with 55k miles for 41k Canadian with most things done on it. PSS9's, GIAC ecu, stock exhaust mod to sound better, double din nav/blue tooth system, new rear spoiler, alternator rebuild, coils and plugs, clutch.
4 years ownership now at 65k miles, added stainless steel pedals to improve heel n toe.
I do my minor service intervals and major ones by the book. I also have done additional brake flush and tranny fluid at increased intervals.
I track my car so brake pads, rotors will wear out so I can't include them as they would last years under street conditions. My track tires wear out but I still am on the same set of street tires my car came with.
The only problems I've had is the modded suspension rusted out PSS9's in the front, needed to be replaced $5000 but this also included many suspension parts that were worn out.
hydraulic clutch line let go. $450
front wheel bearings. $1050 included coolant, oil change, fan belt, air filter, brake flush
I figure $500 per year regular maintenance + $500 every 2nd year for extra maintenance, and plan $1500 per year for to fix something out of the ordinary or need for new tires/brake pads.
4 years ownership now at 65k miles, added stainless steel pedals to improve heel n toe.
I do my minor service intervals and major ones by the book. I also have done additional brake flush and tranny fluid at increased intervals.
I track my car so brake pads, rotors will wear out so I can't include them as they would last years under street conditions. My track tires wear out but I still am on the same set of street tires my car came with.
The only problems I've had is the modded suspension rusted out PSS9's in the front, needed to be replaced $5000 but this also included many suspension parts that were worn out.
hydraulic clutch line let go. $450
front wheel bearings. $1050 included coolant, oil change, fan belt, air filter, brake flush
I figure $500 per year regular maintenance + $500 every 2nd year for extra maintenance, and plan $1500 per year for to fix something out of the ordinary or need for new tires/brake pads.
Last edited by jumper5836; 11-09-2015 at 12:08 PM.
11-09-2015, 11:34 AM
#36
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Many of these cars have seen 5+ owners and have sketchy records. It takes attention to detail to see the extra nicks and scratches that parts/bolts/fittings get from coming apart and going back together multiple times. Cars are pretty easy to swap parts around on and in a couple days you can change a lot.
My issue with the 996 turbo and other cars with significant HP gains from removable mods is that you may be dating a prom queen that just got out of rehab. Imaging buying one that someone just reverted back to "stock", only to find that it had been tuned to over 600hp, or just poorly tuned from stock, and you get to experience the last few miles of use from what was just previously a ticking bomb.
My issue with the 996 turbo and other cars with significant HP gains from removable mods is that you may be dating a prom queen that just got out of rehab. Imaging buying one that someone just reverted back to "stock", only to find that it had been tuned to over 600hp, or just poorly tuned from stock, and you get to experience the last few miles of use from what was just previously a ticking bomb.
11-09-2015, 11:43 AM
#38
11-09-2015, 11:52 AM
#39
Nordschleife Master
11-09-2015, 01:07 PM
#40
Drifting
5000 on rusted out suspension= enough said. You did get what you paid for and I'm sure it suits your needs and if your happy-----. Wanted to add on the prom queen scenario that while I agree that can/does happen the signs are usually quite obvious= worn/marred interior from helmet, roll cage removal and seat changes etc. If you inspect turbos/ics for signs of being removed/reinstalled along with the condition of fasteners it can go a long way in figuring past history. Nothing is fool proof but using your head helps. As far as some of the cars mentioned as deals most I would run a way from in a hurry but some people would do the same with my car because of the price and its stock.
11-09-2015, 01:52 PM
#41
Nordschleife Master
5000 on rusted out suspension= enough said. You did get what you paid for and I'm sure it suits your needs and if your happy-----. Wanted to add on the prom queen scenario that while I agree that can/does happen the signs are usually quite obvious= worn/marred interior from helmet, roll cage removal and seat changes etc. If you inspect turbos/ics for signs of being removed/reinstalled along with the condition of fasteners it can go a long way in figuring past history. Nothing is fool proof but using your head helps. As far as some of the cars mentioned as deals most I would run a way from in a hurry but some people would do the same with my car because of the price and its stock.
11-09-2015, 02:40 PM
#43
Nordschleife Master
Pic of the broken Pss9 and the new H&R RSS
11-09-2015, 04:10 PM
#45
I had my 03 996T for approx a year. I spent about $200 on maint, Replaced the turn signal pod as a DIY, which I knew it had when I bought it. Did a $100 alignment for piece of mind. That about covers it for 3000 miles. I did buy the Discount Tire warranty for $100 or so. Next owner should be good for a year or 2.