Throttle Cut Off
09-14-2003, 05:55 PM
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Throttle Cut Off
I am interested in trying some left foot braking on the track, but the throttle will cut out if the brake is input without the clutch being engaged. One of the driving instructors at my last DE event suggested that I somehow disable this "feature." Before I explore this possibility, I'd like to know if anyone on the list has ever done this.
BTW, in the September issue of F1 Racing magazine, there is an article entitled "Figuring Schumi" that has added to my interest in left foot braking. They have taken the telemetry data from Schumacher's and Barrichello's cars and done comparative analysis with regards to their respective throttle and brake inputs on specific corners at Silverstone, Montreal and Suzuka. It is an amazing article and clearly shows the advantage that left foot braking gives to "Schumi" over Brarrichello (a right foot braker) by minimizing weight transfer. There is hardly ever a time when he comes off the throttle completely, even under maximum braking.
Clearly, left foot braking is the way to go. Anyway, as I said above, if anyone has "unplugged" the offending sensor to allow for simultaneous brake/throttle applications, I'd like to know where and how they did it.
Thanks!
Bob
BTW, in the September issue of F1 Racing magazine, there is an article entitled "Figuring Schumi" that has added to my interest in left foot braking. They have taken the telemetry data from Schumacher's and Barrichello's cars and done comparative analysis with regards to their respective throttle and brake inputs on specific corners at Silverstone, Montreal and Suzuka. It is an amazing article and clearly shows the advantage that left foot braking gives to "Schumi" over Brarrichello (a right foot braker) by minimizing weight transfer. There is hardly ever a time when he comes off the throttle completely, even under maximum braking.
Clearly, left foot braking is the way to go. Anyway, as I said above, if anyone has "unplugged" the offending sensor to allow for simultaneous brake/throttle applications, I'd like to know where and how they did it.
Thanks!
Bob
09-15-2003, 02:53 AM
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Hmmm. Don't know the answer to that one. But I would bet one of the tuners on the list could help you out if that's really the way that you want to go.
That said, I would be willing to bet that you'd be far better off concentrating on mastering basic driving technique for now. Please forgive me if I a making the wrong assumption, but it sounds like, from the description above, that you are relatively new to DEs (say less than 10 high speed events). If that is true, there's far more time to be gained by mastering the basic techniques that they teach in high performance schools - before going on to something more advanced like left foot braking.
A couple more thoughts. Schumacher can use left foot braking much more effectively than you could in a six speed 996 as he has a sequential tranny that only requires a clutch to leave the pits. On the other hand, if you have a tip, then perhaps left foot braking might be very useful.
Last thought. The cheapest and easiest way to learn left foot braking is to attend a shifter kart racing school. You cannot use your right foot for braking on a shifter kart. So, it comes pretty quickly...
That said, I would be willing to bet that you'd be far better off concentrating on mastering basic driving technique for now. Please forgive me if I a making the wrong assumption, but it sounds like, from the description above, that you are relatively new to DEs (say less than 10 high speed events). If that is true, there's far more time to be gained by mastering the basic techniques that they teach in high performance schools - before going on to something more advanced like left foot braking.
A couple more thoughts. Schumacher can use left foot braking much more effectively than you could in a six speed 996 as he has a sequential tranny that only requires a clutch to leave the pits. On the other hand, if you have a tip, then perhaps left foot braking might be very useful.
Last thought. The cheapest and easiest way to learn left foot braking is to attend a shifter kart racing school. You cannot use your right foot for braking on a shifter kart. So, it comes pretty quickly...
09-15-2003, 01:49 PM
#3
Drifting
Left foot braking makes a dramatic difference to experienced racers when used in the right circumstances. Especially in turbo cars, it can be the difference between first and tenth! I am very surprised that Rubens right foot brakes, just the time it takes to move your foot over is easily measurable.
As the fellow above me mentioned, take a kart school, it's one of the best learning experiences you will have. I learned LFB during my karting years. I will add one note however, don't LFB until you are experienced and looking for that last bit of time, I consider it an advanced technique that, if used too early in the learning curve, will introduce too many moving variables.
As the fellow above me mentioned, take a kart school, it's one of the best learning experiences you will have. I learned LFB during my karting years. I will add one note however, don't LFB until you are experienced and looking for that last bit of time, I consider it an advanced technique that, if used too early in the learning curve, will introduce too many moving variables.
09-15-2003, 10:16 PM
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Good advice from the both of you -- a karting school may be in my future.
That being said, I already have a bit of experience on the street using this technique. I know that the speeds and other factors are not the same but it was a good way to start. One of the hardest parts is to get your brain reprogrammed so that it sends the right signal to the correct foot. I was forced to learn this as I severely broke my right ankle and in fact for three months could not put any weight on it. The only way I could drive was with my left foot only. I then progressed to right foot throttle, left foot brake. It took time but I became comfortable with it.
I think that trying to learn it on the track in a DE event is the logical next step. It is a controlled environment and if done when other cars are not around, probably the safest place to practice it.
For the sake of discussion on when is the best way and time to learn this kind of a skill, I'll put this idea out there. Do any of you fly? It involves similar multitasking skills that are required when driving a car well. You must take in the available information and then translate that into the appropriate control responses. These control responses rarely involve the manipulation of just one control. When you learn to fly you by necessity must learn to manipulate the controls in a coordinated and simultaneous fashion. If you don't, the result is usually not good. So, if this type of multi tasking can and has to be learned by the beginning pilot, why not a driver learning to drive a track as well?
Back to left foot braking ... It would be more difficult in a manual transmission as you said, but not impossible. I am sure that you have seen races on the Speed Channel, where they have a camera aimed at the driver’s feet. Some of the driver’s footwork is amazing. The left foot brakers definitely have an advantage if only because they have one more way to control the dynamics of their cars.
Jim Hall, here I come ...
That being said, I already have a bit of experience on the street using this technique. I know that the speeds and other factors are not the same but it was a good way to start. One of the hardest parts is to get your brain reprogrammed so that it sends the right signal to the correct foot. I was forced to learn this as I severely broke my right ankle and in fact for three months could not put any weight on it. The only way I could drive was with my left foot only. I then progressed to right foot throttle, left foot brake. It took time but I became comfortable with it.
I think that trying to learn it on the track in a DE event is the logical next step. It is a controlled environment and if done when other cars are not around, probably the safest place to practice it.
For the sake of discussion on when is the best way and time to learn this kind of a skill, I'll put this idea out there. Do any of you fly? It involves similar multitasking skills that are required when driving a car well. You must take in the available information and then translate that into the appropriate control responses. These control responses rarely involve the manipulation of just one control. When you learn to fly you by necessity must learn to manipulate the controls in a coordinated and simultaneous fashion. If you don't, the result is usually not good. So, if this type of multi tasking can and has to be learned by the beginning pilot, why not a driver learning to drive a track as well?
Back to left foot braking ... It would be more difficult in a manual transmission as you said, but not impossible. I am sure that you have seen races on the Speed Channel, where they have a camera aimed at the driver’s feet. Some of the driver’s footwork is amazing. The left foot brakers definitely have an advantage if only because they have one more way to control the dynamics of their cars.
Jim Hall, here I come ...
09-16-2003, 01:57 AM
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Hi Bill -
Unfortunately I can't compare to flying, having never given it a try. Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean by what's the best way and when's the right time. But, I'll give it a shot.
As for when, I'd first assess my progress relative to my competition using right foot braking only. Focusing mostly on things such as heel and toe, threshold breaking, maximizing the traction circle and trail braking (in a TT, probably not in a GT2). Once I felt that I had these techniques down really well and was competitive with the faster drivers in my class, then I'd look to add an edge with something like left foot braking.
If you want to give it a shot, I'd first try either a karting school or an autocross course. In autocross, you're mostly in second gear, so it will give you a chance to practice without having to worry much about gear shifts. If that works well for you, then try it in certain corners on the road course of your choice. For example, I think that it is very helpful (and easy to apply) in turn 2 at Phx Intl. But, it's not that helpful elsewhere on that particular course.
Jim Hall is a good place to start. A very fun course and very good instruction.
Hope that helps some.
Yours in speed,
Unfortunately I can't compare to flying, having never given it a try. Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean by what's the best way and when's the right time. But, I'll give it a shot.
As for when, I'd first assess my progress relative to my competition using right foot braking only. Focusing mostly on things such as heel and toe, threshold breaking, maximizing the traction circle and trail braking (in a TT, probably not in a GT2). Once I felt that I had these techniques down really well and was competitive with the faster drivers in my class, then I'd look to add an edge with something like left foot braking.
If you want to give it a shot, I'd first try either a karting school or an autocross course. In autocross, you're mostly in second gear, so it will give you a chance to practice without having to worry much about gear shifts. If that works well for you, then try it in certain corners on the road course of your choice. For example, I think that it is very helpful (and easy to apply) in turn 2 at Phx Intl. But, it's not that helpful elsewhere on that particular course.
Jim Hall is a good place to start. A very fun course and very good instruction.
Hope that helps some.
Yours in speed,
09-16-2003, 11:46 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
I have 2 vintage road racers with Jericho transmissions- these cars require left foot braking since you have to blip the throttle on downshifting. I don't think it's a difficult technique, and in my opinion, makes corner exits much more predictable, especially if you have the rear end out. There are some corners, like the Kink at Elkhart Lake that are easier with left foot braking (at least a gentle brake rub), and a little throttle left on. I haven't tried it in my X50- are you sure that you can't brake at all with the throttle on? I'll try it tomorrow and check back. AS
