Differences? - H&R Street Performance Coilover & KW V1 Coilover
08-11-2015, 12:51 PM
#31
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
TR does have good people in their shop and tech support, however......if I was asked to wrote a review of TR "Customer Service" it would not be 'complimentary', and that's putting it as nicely as I can.
08-11-2015, 01:01 PM
#32
Pro
Thread Starter
Wow, that sux. Did you contact H&R in USA or Germany? I have been in contact with both and they have been great at answering all my questions. I will pm you the email of the person I have been speaking to. I'm surprised neither Tire Rack nor H&R has stepped up to help you out.
12-25-2015, 04:11 PM
#35
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here's a dumb question of the day from an inveterate drinker with an excuse for having begun so early!
can someone/anyone answer in any semi objective fashion, what might be "wrong" or a "mistake" to simply go with BILSTEIN dampers and some H&R or TA springs for a dual duty car that would spend maybe 1/10 of its time on a track and 80% of its time smashing up and down hills?
bilsteins are oem! and their B8 and/or "sports" are stiffer than our oems! and the ride height with a good damper/spring combo is terrific! so whats the problem OTHER than NON adjustability?? ( i GET THAT! ) what, just too inexpensive?? so disdained as being "cheap"?
i mean 991 turbos with all that fancy pasm etc etc are STILL running ( some ) springs and those re 200k+ cars too!
i'm just curious and relatively clueless.
TIA!
can someone/anyone answer in any semi objective fashion, what might be "wrong" or a "mistake" to simply go with BILSTEIN dampers and some H&R or TA springs for a dual duty car that would spend maybe 1/10 of its time on a track and 80% of its time smashing up and down hills?
bilsteins are oem! and their B8 and/or "sports" are stiffer than our oems! and the ride height with a good damper/spring combo is terrific! so whats the problem OTHER than NON adjustability?? ( i GET THAT! ) what, just too inexpensive?? so disdained as being "cheap"?
i mean 991 turbos with all that fancy pasm etc etc are STILL running ( some ) springs and those re 200k+ cars too!
i'm just curious and relatively clueless.
TIA!
12-25-2015, 07:44 PM
#36
Pro
Thread Starter
Here is my take on it. Been about a month now since I installed the H&R Street Coilovers + rear toe lockouts & adj toe arms .. I am very happy with them. They are better than stock in every way. I'm sure this would apply to PSS10, KW, etc.. as well. All great choices.
I researched quite a bit before making my decision and I also considered H&R Springs + Bilstein shocks. A setup like this would be 15-1600 or so (each shock is around 300 and the springs are also about 300). I think a setup like this would be great BUT for just a small bit more you can get adjustable ride height with the coilovers.
H&R Street coilovers as well as H&R RSS coilovers both use Bilstein shocks and you end up with a matching package for very little more $$ (200-300) . From what I've read H&R coilovers are very similar in design to what comes on GT2. The shocks that come with the H&R coilovers can also be rebuilt and revalved as well.
Once you have adjustable ride height on the car you won't want to go back
I researched quite a bit before making my decision and I also considered H&R Springs + Bilstein shocks. A setup like this would be 15-1600 or so (each shock is around 300 and the springs are also about 300). I think a setup like this would be great BUT for just a small bit more you can get adjustable ride height with the coilovers.
H&R Street coilovers as well as H&R RSS coilovers both use Bilstein shocks and you end up with a matching package for very little more $$ (200-300) . From what I've read H&R coilovers are very similar in design to what comes on GT2. The shocks that come with the H&R coilovers can also be rebuilt and revalved as well.
Once you have adjustable ride height on the car you won't want to go back
here's a dumb question of the day from an inveterate drinker with an excuse for having begun so early!
can someone/anyone answer in any semi objective fashion, what might be "wrong" or a "mistake" to simply go with BILSTEIN dampers and some H&R or TA springs for a dual duty car that would spend maybe 1/10 of its time on a track and 80% of its time smashing up and down hills?
bilsteins are oem! and their B8 and/or "sports" are stiffer than our oems! and the ride height with a good damper/spring combo is terrific! so whats the problem OTHER than NON adjustability?? ( i GET THAT! ) what, just too inexpensive?? so disdained as being "cheap"?
i mean 991 turbos with all that fancy pasm etc etc are STILL running ( some ) springs and those re 200k+ cars too!
i'm just curious and relatively clueless.
TIA!
can someone/anyone answer in any semi objective fashion, what might be "wrong" or a "mistake" to simply go with BILSTEIN dampers and some H&R or TA springs for a dual duty car that would spend maybe 1/10 of its time on a track and 80% of its time smashing up and down hills?
bilsteins are oem! and their B8 and/or "sports" are stiffer than our oems! and the ride height with a good damper/spring combo is terrific! so whats the problem OTHER than NON adjustability?? ( i GET THAT! ) what, just too inexpensive?? so disdained as being "cheap"?
i mean 991 turbos with all that fancy pasm etc etc are STILL running ( some ) springs and those re 200k+ cars too!
i'm just curious and relatively clueless.
TIA!
Last edited by gophaster; 12-25-2015 at 08:00 PM.
12-25-2015, 07:54 PM
#37
Pro
Thread Starter
Lots of great info here. I ended up going with H&R Street coilovers and the improvement over stock is well worth it. I believe that any of the others (PSS10, KW, etc) all would be a good choice.
I think one of the key things is like you mentioned, you must setup the shocks (ride height) within the manufacturer's specs. The instructions for all the manufacturers are very clear in exactly what the height range must be set at in order for each of the kits to work properly. If you go outside of the range (either too high or too low) performance will not be optimal.
For anyone shopping for coilovers be sure and choose a kit that the height adjustment range falls within the ride height that you are after.
I think one of the key things is like you mentioned, you must setup the shocks (ride height) within the manufacturer's specs. The instructions for all the manufacturers are very clear in exactly what the height range must be set at in order for each of the kits to work properly. If you go outside of the range (either too high or too low) performance will not be optimal.
For anyone shopping for coilovers be sure and choose a kit that the height adjustment range falls within the ride height that you are after.
While suspension feel & ride quality is a very subjective topic I will try to elaborate on my experiences with H&R RSS, Ohlins R&T and KW V3 on the 996TT platform to help those interested in any of these options.
H&R RSS coilovers ride firm & very controlled. The shock/spring combo feels good. The motion control is great and keeps the ride very compliant. Handling is greatly improved and depending on set up and supporting parts - the car is very neutral. The RSS kit is low even at the highest point of adjustment. Though even at a quite aggressive height - I squeezed a 315/30/18 on Turbo wheels and 20mm spacers with massaged fenders.
Ohlins R&T - The last 996TT with Ohlins R&T was was set up to be very daily driver friendly and back road capable. The ride was very smooth almost plush. I would dare to call it soft, but it was still very controlled and did not bounce. The shocks worked well with the springs and there was a lot of room left on the table for firmer settings and more control. There is a good range of height adjustment on the R&Ts as well.
KW V3 - The ride quality on V3s can be very compliant to very firm and in some cases deemed harsh. Fine tuning it necessary (as with any adjustable shock) and is the reason you spring for (no pun intended) an adjustable suspension system. I have worked with KWs and other adjustable suspensions for years and have developed my own strategy regarding suspension tuning. I like shocks that have a good amount of rebound to control the spring & shock movement. I find the KWs balanced and once finely tuned a great compromise for street and light track duty. In some cases more spring is needed (as with all of these suspensions), but for the most part I find the V3 to be quite versatile. The height adjustment on the V3 leaves a good range of adjustability. Handling of the V3s is very balanced.
In regards to the original poster's concerns between the H&Rs and KWs I will say that you can't go wrong with either when it comes to ride and handling compared to stock. I have found that most / if not all of the cars that I have put H&Rs and KWs on ride equal to or better than stock - the key is that the suspension be set with in or close to the manufacturer's operating specifications. If the shocks are adjustable, fine tuning may be required to get the shock to behave as you see fit and the spring rate and other parts/settings must be taken into account as well. As far as build quality I find H&R to be on par though KW shock bodies are FAR more resistant to rust/corrosion vs H&R. I have yet to see a set of KWs corrode or seize up - I cannot say the same for H&R.
Anyway I hope that helps someone out there... If you have questions feel free to message me.
Cheers,
David
H&R RSS coilovers ride firm & very controlled. The shock/spring combo feels good. The motion control is great and keeps the ride very compliant. Handling is greatly improved and depending on set up and supporting parts - the car is very neutral. The RSS kit is low even at the highest point of adjustment. Though even at a quite aggressive height - I squeezed a 315/30/18 on Turbo wheels and 20mm spacers with massaged fenders.
Ohlins R&T - The last 996TT with Ohlins R&T was was set up to be very daily driver friendly and back road capable. The ride was very smooth almost plush. I would dare to call it soft, but it was still very controlled and did not bounce. The shocks worked well with the springs and there was a lot of room left on the table for firmer settings and more control. There is a good range of height adjustment on the R&Ts as well.
KW V3 - The ride quality on V3s can be very compliant to very firm and in some cases deemed harsh. Fine tuning it necessary (as with any adjustable shock) and is the reason you spring for (no pun intended) an adjustable suspension system. I have worked with KWs and other adjustable suspensions for years and have developed my own strategy regarding suspension tuning. I like shocks that have a good amount of rebound to control the spring & shock movement. I find the KWs balanced and once finely tuned a great compromise for street and light track duty. In some cases more spring is needed (as with all of these suspensions), but for the most part I find the V3 to be quite versatile. The height adjustment on the V3 leaves a good range of adjustability. Handling of the V3s is very balanced.
In regards to the original poster's concerns between the H&Rs and KWs I will say that you can't go wrong with either when it comes to ride and handling compared to stock. I have found that most / if not all of the cars that I have put H&Rs and KWs on ride equal to or better than stock - the key is that the suspension be set with in or close to the manufacturer's operating specifications. If the shocks are adjustable, fine tuning may be required to get the shock to behave as you see fit and the spring rate and other parts/settings must be taken into account as well. As far as build quality I find H&R to be on par though KW shock bodies are FAR more resistant to rust/corrosion vs H&R. I have yet to see a set of KWs corrode or seize up - I cannot say the same for H&R.
Anyway I hope that helps someone out there... If you have questions feel free to message me.
Cheers,
David
12-25-2015, 08:23 PM
#38
i've driven enough cars with coil over setups, and although i haven't lived with them, just have the most difficult time with what i am ( or more importantly, possibly not?!? ) missing.
i guess i'd have to spend a lot more time with them to know. thx for the answer though! I'm replacing my working yet aging stuff with either used but revalved gt3 bilsteins ( and full gt3 setup/uprights/lca's etc etc since they are sitting in a box for me already..) and all the assorted parts which is gonna cost me 4k miminum, or just new b8's and sport springs again. which will cost far less, and achieve similar handling, while keeping the ride height ( -40-50mm ) that i have grown so accustomed to over these years. i wouldn't change height, for anything.
12-25-2015, 08:57 PM
#39
Pro
Thread Starter
Well, if it ain't broke don't fix it ...if you're happy with the current setup for your application (which I know you are) then I would not mess with it!
If your current ride height is perfect for you then that benefit of the coilovers becomes less useful. You would be able to have the car corner balanced but not sure how much that's worth for the street.
Being that you have the gt3 stuff as an option it makes it a little more complicated a choice. For me I looked at the springs+shocks and felt that for almost the same cost I would opt for the coilovers. I don't think you could go wrong with either, since you are happy at the height the springs put your car at without messing around.
My opinion on your actual question, lol.... I don't think there is anything wrong with running a quality spring+shock combo like that.
...if you're happy with the current setup for your application (which I know you are) then I would not mess with it!If your current ride height is perfect for you then that benefit of the coilovers becomes less useful. You would be able to have the car corner balanced but not sure how much that's worth for the street.
Being that you have the gt3 stuff as an option it makes it a little more complicated a choice. For me I looked at the springs+shocks and felt that for almost the same cost I would opt for the coilovers. I don't think you could go wrong with either, since you are happy at the height the springs put your car at without messing around.
My opinion on your actual question, lol.... I don't think there is anything wrong with running a quality spring+shock combo like that.
Last edited by gophaster; 12-25-2015 at 09:15 PM.
12-26-2015, 01:46 AM
#40
I agree with Gophaster, if it ain't broke don't fix it. You seem pretty happy with your set up, so why change.
12-26-2015, 01:53 AM
#41
the GT2/GT3 coilovers are a nice compromise on the street Mark...I'm still debating doing a revalve/respring on mine or going for Ohlins R&T...
12-26-2015, 03:17 AM
#42
As of recent, I don't believe Bilstein offers the revalve service any longer on the GT2/3 OEM shocks. With that said, JRZ offers excellent products for this platform starting with the RS1s which are priced in the $3k range and going all the way to $15k+ for their quad race shocks. I would give the RS1s a long hard look as they can be ordered with your choice of spring rates, upper mounts, etc. All set ups are built to order with a two week lead time.
Last edited by powdrhound; 11-09-2017 at 05:10 AM.
12-26-2015, 06:39 AM
#43
Well, if it ain't broke don't fix it ...if you're happy with the current setup for your application (which I know you are) then I would not mess with it!
If your current ride height is perfect for you then that benefit of the coilovers becomes less useful. You would be able to have the car corner balanced but not sure how much that's worth for the street.
Being that you have the gt3 stuff as an option it makes it a little more complicated a choice. For me I looked at the springs+shocks and felt that for almost the same cost I would opt for the coilovers. I don't think you could go wrong with either, since you are happy at the height the springs put your car at without messing around.
My opinion on your actual question, lol.... I don't think there is anything wrong with running a quality spring+shock combo like that.
...if you're happy with the current setup for your application (which I know you are) then I would not mess with it!If your current ride height is perfect for you then that benefit of the coilovers becomes less useful. You would be able to have the car corner balanced but not sure how much that's worth for the street.
Being that you have the gt3 stuff as an option it makes it a little more complicated a choice. For me I looked at the springs+shocks and felt that for almost the same cost I would opt for the coilovers. I don't think you could go wrong with either, since you are happy at the height the springs put your car at without messing around.
My opinion on your actual question, lol.... I don't think there is anything wrong with running a quality spring+shock combo like that.
lol. yeah, it ain't broke, but possibly due for a refresh. i'm still on the fence re going for the FULL gt3 bits or replicate what I've got now! even though my diff is disconnected it's still just embarrassingly hanging there! but again, i just run up and down hills! the ONLY thing having stopped me from the gt3 conversion is all the $$ to revalve + R&R it all and also replace what other parts should be NEW ( lca's etc ) VS the old stuff just sitting e.g. the springs on the coils themselves! such a quandary!
thx for the info! as always...
12-26-2015, 06:45 AM
#44
oh sh*t.. just when i think i *almost* have stuff figured out. ugh. well, john.. you know you'd get a pm from me! which you're always kind enough to take time out to answer! i hope i'm not gonna have to re-do EVERYthing but if i *finally* do? it'll answer once and for all, my half assed rwd *semi* conversion that i have now! ( that I'm actually perfectly ok with now!.. crazy as that sounds! )
12-26-2015, 06:51 AM
#45
a proper dialed in alignment is more than adequate.