HRE Lacks Customer Service
02-15-2014, 01:04 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
A simple phone call to HRE before authorizing work by another company would have prevented all of this. S Car Go should be the ones eating the $150 if they did the work before verifying that HRE would reimburse them.
Don't see how you could blame HRE for this - they would have fixed their error for free, but you can't hold them responsible for costs incurred by someone outside of the scope of their warranty.
Don't see how you could blame HRE for this - they would have fixed their error for free, but you can't hold them responsible for costs incurred by someone outside of the scope of their warranty.
02-15-2014, 01:44 PM
#17
Drifting
I have been reading this and while a mixed bag Leftlane is correct in my opinion. I would have called HRE first thing and discussed it with them and went from there.
02-15-2014, 08:09 PM
#18
Instructor
HRE has too good a reputation to let customer service destroy it, and they don't. Any manufacturer has to be given the opportunity to correct a wrong, and when you circumvent the process, it really becomes difficult to hold that mfg accountable. I really sympathize with the owner of the wheels but I really can't blame HRE on doing anything bad or unwarranted. Their wheels are legendary on not only Porsche but mist high performance cars.
02-17-2014, 02:23 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thank you all who provided suggestions and comments. I've found the Rennlist community incredibly helpful, insightful, and supportive over the years. You, combined with my mechanical abilities, and a great mechanic for the things I can't fix, have made Porsche ownership a true joy.
I've tried to answer all of your questions below, respond to HRE's further embarrassment of themselves, and to provide a little clarity and follow-up.
1. HRE - Excuses are like a$$holes, everyone has one.
2. HRE - Time is money. I think you need an economics course with some of the junior MBA's on my team. You spent more than $150 on the initial call with SCarGo, with me, and in responding in this forum. Wouldn't it have been easier to step off your high-horse and just admit that possibly, just possibly, you could err? To err is human after all.
3. Kevinmacd (and others) - I called and talked to HRE, and after getting 15 minutes of excuses and deflection from the initial "handler", I was escalated to management. HRE's position was clear: SCarGo is at fault, no way did we mess up, we won't reimburse you. They were unapologetic, and were aggressive in their position. Writing a letter wouldn't have produced a different result.
4. F1crazydriver - Your friend is not alone. I have 6 close friends who trust only SCarGo. I have them to the tire work on all of my cars (each with multiple wheels, including my Spyder's painted wheels), and my wife's new BMW 135i also with painted wheels. They are extremely careful.
5. HRE - You didn't feel terrible on the phone when I called you. NOW you say you feel terrible, which is laughable. I started my comment with "I have a mild cautionary note", which was specifically crafted because I understand the business position you've taken, but take issue with the the customer service position, which was completely lacking. I understand fault and liability. I understand warranty law for California. Your initial tech was so full of it on the phone, I had him tied in knots. He placed blame everywhere, including me, without ever once suggesting a solution that would take care of the situation. Here are some of his suggestions and excuses:
- "We test our wheels, it couldn't have been us." - Yes, I told you that over a 48 hour period it lost 5psi, a very small leak that it outside of your admitted testing parameters. He had no answer...
- "You should have sent the wheel to us, we would have fixed it with 24 hour turn-aorund." - While I do have a floor jack and many jack-stands to work on my vehicles, I would have had to go out and purchase a large box, then arranged and paid for shipping (taking a 315 size wheel in my Spyder wasn't an option, so the shipping company would have to come and pick it up, and I'd have to remove the tire somehow prior). He had no answer for this...
- The easiest option for me, the customer, would be to take it to my mechanic and have them pull off the wheel and tire to ship it, but then I'm without my car during all of this. He had no response...
- How is your turnaround so quick with your rigorous testing process? Would that be skipped? He had no response...
6. HRE - You are willfully ignoring the simple facts of the situation. To get the wheel to you, I have to drive to the shop 45 minutes away, arrange someone to pick me up and drive me to work/home, wait the number of days it would take to both ship, fix, supposedly test, ship, install/balance the tire. That would roughly, give or take a day, take a week. The quickest and simplest thing for me was to pay SCarGo $150 for the fix. It got me my car back in 24hours with minimal effort and hassle. You seem to have some issue and pi$$ing match with SCarGo, and you let that affect a relationship with the customer. That is childish and short-sighted.
7. HRE - I was willing to forgo the warranty from you, and in fact have since SCarGo did the work. Since someone else has sealed the wheel, you are off the hook for any risk or liability. You simply continue to refuse to reimburse me, not because of any legal reasons, but out of stubbornness.
8. HRE - The repair of the wheels (including new parts), what roughly $4K including shipping.
9. Wross996tt - I like my wheels. I understand the cost of the repair is similar to the cost of new rims, but I don't like the idea of wasting perfectly good parts, and I love the design of my rims as they match my car perfectly.
10. Milb-Mike - You are correct, but I didn't want warranty work, and never asked for it. I know that SCarGo would guarantee their repair, so having them fix it was the less painful path. As mentioned, by choosing to have the work done by anyone other than HRE, they are off the hook. I never wanted their warranty. I simply wanted customer service, not excuses and attitude. HRE could have had anyone in my area inspect the wheels, but that would have cost them more than $150. This whole situation is pretty funny and ridiculous. Any course of action would cost HRE more than $150, yet they refuse to offer any compensation. I do not regret the $150, it was well spent. I had a 24 hour turnaround and my wheel holds air. Again, it's not about the money.
11. Sanyata (and others) - SCarGo called HRE before they worked on the wheel, because the cause of the leak was obvious. SCarGo also called me and told me of HRE's response, and let me know they could fix the wheel for $150 all-in. I then called HRE and got the runaround for 15 minutes, then attitude from management. THEN I had SCarGo fix the wheel.
12. HRE - You state that even if the fault WAS caused by a dealer, you would have reimbursed me? So, since you have some argument with SCarGo that doesn't have anything to do with me, and since they are no longer your dealer, you make me pay the price for your broken BtoB relationship? After I just spent a ton of money fixing your wheels? THAT is exactly the crappy customer service I'm complaining about.
13. HRE - As mentioned, NO ONE is asking you to accept liability. I was asking you if you'd cover the fee of $150. By my choice of having SCarGo do the work, you're legally off the hook. Remove this from your list of excuses.
14. HRE - If the invoice had been $15K, I would have had the wheel sent back to you. This is an idiotic argument to make. The whole point was that it was such a low dollar amount that your suggestions to rectify the situation were more of a pain (in time, inconvenience to the customer, and cost) than the obvious choice to have SCarGo do the work.
16. HRE - Puncturing the sealant would have been very hard to do on a 315 size wheel. To ram the tool that far in to the center spline would have required massive incompetence, and almost too difficult to do. I've also since replaced all 4 tires. I took a look at the wheels with the tires off, and there were no gouging marks from some flubbing tire tech. It simply didn't set right, your testing (as you admit) isn't 48 hours and you just missed a 5psi drop.
17. HRE - Your brand would have been better protected and managed by simply doing the right thing. You didn't need to admit fault. You didn't need to take on liability. You simply needed to act like human beings that care about customer service. My company has a large global customer service component. We would have comped something like this upon the initial call. It's cheaper, the customer has an even better perception of the brand afterward. Think of the ripple effect of your current position and approach, and tell me what is better for your brand perception: Regardless of what the Rennlist community thinks, my PCA chapter friends, all of my US track-day friends, my European friends who I routinely do Spa and the Ring with, all know the situation and trust my assessment of it. What do you think was cheaper: holding fast to an untenable position and telling me that I'm at fault in a public forum, or comping me $150 with no attached liability?
18. Turbo4me - THAT was a great response, and it made me chuckle.
19. Docdan - I'm glad you had a great experience with HRE.
20. Leftlane - See my comments above. Also, I paid a lot of money for new parts and labor to HRE on the wheels. Not once did HRE offer to fix anything under warranty (outside of the leak). I also don't think they should have. Bent rims from the previous owner, or me, are not their fault. That's why I was happy to pay them to fix the rims, as I don't feel that it was a fault in with their rims. However, never once did they offer anything to me.
21. Melb-mike - It is their approach and attitude, and how they've handled the situation, that I take issue with. From the first call from SCarGo, to my call with them, to their responses here, they ignore fact, and have no understanding of good customer service. My point is that regardless of who was at fault, SCarGo when they installed the tire, or HRE for not sealing the re-built wheel, there was no downside to understanding and having empathy with the customer. There was no downside to offering to pay the $150. Hell, they could have sent me some microfiber towels or a baseball cap with HRE written on it. They didn't, because they don't care. How many companies do you order from that send you little free gifts to thank you for your business? Almost all of my purchases online result in something...a bottle opener with their logo on it from LaRue Tactical, a free baseball hat from Olukai, stickers from Smith optics, key chain from Porsche, sticker from PCA, etc. None of this was or is expected by me. It's simply surprising and delightful. What did I get from HRE after spending a lot of money to fix 3 rims? 1 defect, a little inconvenience, and a lot of attitude.
I've tried to answer all of your questions below, respond to HRE's further embarrassment of themselves, and to provide a little clarity and follow-up.
1. HRE - Excuses are like a$$holes, everyone has one.
2. HRE - Time is money. I think you need an economics course with some of the junior MBA's on my team. You spent more than $150 on the initial call with SCarGo, with me, and in responding in this forum. Wouldn't it have been easier to step off your high-horse and just admit that possibly, just possibly, you could err? To err is human after all.
3. Kevinmacd (and others) - I called and talked to HRE, and after getting 15 minutes of excuses and deflection from the initial "handler", I was escalated to management. HRE's position was clear: SCarGo is at fault, no way did we mess up, we won't reimburse you. They were unapologetic, and were aggressive in their position. Writing a letter wouldn't have produced a different result.
4. F1crazydriver - Your friend is not alone. I have 6 close friends who trust only SCarGo. I have them to the tire work on all of my cars (each with multiple wheels, including my Spyder's painted wheels), and my wife's new BMW 135i also with painted wheels. They are extremely careful.
5. HRE - You didn't feel terrible on the phone when I called you. NOW you say you feel terrible, which is laughable. I started my comment with "I have a mild cautionary note", which was specifically crafted because I understand the business position you've taken, but take issue with the the customer service position, which was completely lacking. I understand fault and liability. I understand warranty law for California. Your initial tech was so full of it on the phone, I had him tied in knots. He placed blame everywhere, including me, without ever once suggesting a solution that would take care of the situation. Here are some of his suggestions and excuses:
- "We test our wheels, it couldn't have been us." - Yes, I told you that over a 48 hour period it lost 5psi, a very small leak that it outside of your admitted testing parameters. He had no answer...
- "You should have sent the wheel to us, we would have fixed it with 24 hour turn-aorund." - While I do have a floor jack and many jack-stands to work on my vehicles, I would have had to go out and purchase a large box, then arranged and paid for shipping (taking a 315 size wheel in my Spyder wasn't an option, so the shipping company would have to come and pick it up, and I'd have to remove the tire somehow prior). He had no answer for this...
- The easiest option for me, the customer, would be to take it to my mechanic and have them pull off the wheel and tire to ship it, but then I'm without my car during all of this. He had no response...
- How is your turnaround so quick with your rigorous testing process? Would that be skipped? He had no response...
6. HRE - You are willfully ignoring the simple facts of the situation. To get the wheel to you, I have to drive to the shop 45 minutes away, arrange someone to pick me up and drive me to work/home, wait the number of days it would take to both ship, fix, supposedly test, ship, install/balance the tire. That would roughly, give or take a day, take a week. The quickest and simplest thing for me was to pay SCarGo $150 for the fix. It got me my car back in 24hours with minimal effort and hassle. You seem to have some issue and pi$$ing match with SCarGo, and you let that affect a relationship with the customer. That is childish and short-sighted.
7. HRE - I was willing to forgo the warranty from you, and in fact have since SCarGo did the work. Since someone else has sealed the wheel, you are off the hook for any risk or liability. You simply continue to refuse to reimburse me, not because of any legal reasons, but out of stubbornness.
8. HRE - The repair of the wheels (including new parts), what roughly $4K including shipping.
9. Wross996tt - I like my wheels. I understand the cost of the repair is similar to the cost of new rims, but I don't like the idea of wasting perfectly good parts, and I love the design of my rims as they match my car perfectly.
10. Milb-Mike - You are correct, but I didn't want warranty work, and never asked for it. I know that SCarGo would guarantee their repair, so having them fix it was the less painful path. As mentioned, by choosing to have the work done by anyone other than HRE, they are off the hook. I never wanted their warranty. I simply wanted customer service, not excuses and attitude. HRE could have had anyone in my area inspect the wheels, but that would have cost them more than $150. This whole situation is pretty funny and ridiculous. Any course of action would cost HRE more than $150, yet they refuse to offer any compensation. I do not regret the $150, it was well spent. I had a 24 hour turnaround and my wheel holds air. Again, it's not about the money.
11. Sanyata (and others) - SCarGo called HRE before they worked on the wheel, because the cause of the leak was obvious. SCarGo also called me and told me of HRE's response, and let me know they could fix the wheel for $150 all-in. I then called HRE and got the runaround for 15 minutes, then attitude from management. THEN I had SCarGo fix the wheel.
12. HRE - You state that even if the fault WAS caused by a dealer, you would have reimbursed me? So, since you have some argument with SCarGo that doesn't have anything to do with me, and since they are no longer your dealer, you make me pay the price for your broken BtoB relationship? After I just spent a ton of money fixing your wheels? THAT is exactly the crappy customer service I'm complaining about.
13. HRE - As mentioned, NO ONE is asking you to accept liability. I was asking you if you'd cover the fee of $150. By my choice of having SCarGo do the work, you're legally off the hook. Remove this from your list of excuses.
14. HRE - If the invoice had been $15K, I would have had the wheel sent back to you. This is an idiotic argument to make. The whole point was that it was such a low dollar amount that your suggestions to rectify the situation were more of a pain (in time, inconvenience to the customer, and cost) than the obvious choice to have SCarGo do the work.
16. HRE - Puncturing the sealant would have been very hard to do on a 315 size wheel. To ram the tool that far in to the center spline would have required massive incompetence, and almost too difficult to do. I've also since replaced all 4 tires. I took a look at the wheels with the tires off, and there were no gouging marks from some flubbing tire tech. It simply didn't set right, your testing (as you admit) isn't 48 hours and you just missed a 5psi drop.
17. HRE - Your brand would have been better protected and managed by simply doing the right thing. You didn't need to admit fault. You didn't need to take on liability. You simply needed to act like human beings that care about customer service. My company has a large global customer service component. We would have comped something like this upon the initial call. It's cheaper, the customer has an even better perception of the brand afterward. Think of the ripple effect of your current position and approach, and tell me what is better for your brand perception: Regardless of what the Rennlist community thinks, my PCA chapter friends, all of my US track-day friends, my European friends who I routinely do Spa and the Ring with, all know the situation and trust my assessment of it. What do you think was cheaper: holding fast to an untenable position and telling me that I'm at fault in a public forum, or comping me $150 with no attached liability?
18. Turbo4me - THAT was a great response, and it made me chuckle.
19. Docdan - I'm glad you had a great experience with HRE.
20. Leftlane - See my comments above. Also, I paid a lot of money for new parts and labor to HRE on the wheels. Not once did HRE offer to fix anything under warranty (outside of the leak). I also don't think they should have. Bent rims from the previous owner, or me, are not their fault. That's why I was happy to pay them to fix the rims, as I don't feel that it was a fault in with their rims. However, never once did they offer anything to me.
21. Melb-mike - It is their approach and attitude, and how they've handled the situation, that I take issue with. From the first call from SCarGo, to my call with them, to their responses here, they ignore fact, and have no understanding of good customer service. My point is that regardless of who was at fault, SCarGo when they installed the tire, or HRE for not sealing the re-built wheel, there was no downside to understanding and having empathy with the customer. There was no downside to offering to pay the $150. Hell, they could have sent me some microfiber towels or a baseball cap with HRE written on it. They didn't, because they don't care. How many companies do you order from that send you little free gifts to thank you for your business? Almost all of my purchases online result in something...a bottle opener with their logo on it from LaRue Tactical, a free baseball hat from Olukai, stickers from Smith optics, key chain from Porsche, sticker from PCA, etc. None of this was or is expected by me. It's simply surprising and delightful. What did I get from HRE after spending a lot of money to fix 3 rims? 1 defect, a little inconvenience, and a lot of attitude.
02-17-2014, 04:38 PM
#23
Former Vendor
Last week, we all sat around here at HRE looking at the situation, reviewing what had occurred, and we all felt justified in our response and handling of this situation, including me. Unfortunately we lost sight of the fact that you as our customer were not being taken care of in an appropriate manner. Instead of being self-righteous, we should have immediately taken care of your $150 and dealt with any disagreements with other parties separately. I am sorry for that.
Given this, we are going to refund your $150 immediately and will provide something additional for all the hassle. As an HRE customer, we should have dealt with your dissatisfaction from your perspective, not ours and I offer my sincerest apologies. The situation was bad, but we made it worse. We screwed up and I am personally sorry for not preventing this and fixing this sooner. Please contact us as soon as possible so we can get your info to submit the credit.
Alan Peltier
President
HRE Performance Wheels
Given this, we are going to refund your $150 immediately and will provide something additional for all the hassle. As an HRE customer, we should have dealt with your dissatisfaction from your perspective, not ours and I offer my sincerest apologies. The situation was bad, but we made it worse. We screwed up and I am personally sorry for not preventing this and fixing this sooner. Please contact us as soon as possible so we can get your info to submit the credit.
Alan Peltier
President
HRE Performance Wheels
02-17-2014, 07:47 PM
#25
Track Day
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 15
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Last week, we all sat around here at HRE looking at the situation, reviewing what had occurred, and we all felt justified in our response and handling of this situation, including me. Unfortunately we lost sight of the fact that you as our customer were not being taken care of in an appropriate manner. Instead of being self-righteous, we should have immediately taken care of your $150 and dealt with any disagreements with other parties separately. I am sorry for that.
Given this, we are going to refund your $150 immediately and will provide something additional for all the hassle. As an HRE customer, we should have dealt with your dissatisfaction from your perspective, not ours and I offer my sincerest apologies. The situation was bad, but we made it worse. We screwed up and I am personally sorry for not preventing this and fixing this sooner. Please contact us as soon as possible so we can get your info to submit the credit.
Alan Peltier
President
HRE Performance Wheels
Given this, we are going to refund your $150 immediately and will provide something additional for all the hassle. As an HRE customer, we should have dealt with your dissatisfaction from your perspective, not ours and I offer my sincerest apologies. The situation was bad, but we made it worse. We screwed up and I am personally sorry for not preventing this and fixing this sooner. Please contact us as soon as possible so we can get your info to submit the credit.
Alan Peltier
President
HRE Performance Wheels
03-12-2014, 06:13 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Last week, we all sat around here at HRE looking at the situation, reviewing what had occurred, and we all felt justified in our response and handling of this situation, including me. Unfortunately we lost sight of the fact that you as our customer were not being taken care of in an appropriate manner. Instead of being self-righteous, we should have immediately taken care of your $150 and dealt with any disagreements with other parties separately. I am sorry for that.
Given this, we are going to refund your $150 immediately and will provide something additional for all the hassle. As an HRE customer, we should have dealt with your dissatisfaction from your perspective, not ours and I offer my sincerest apologies. The situation was bad, but we made it worse. We screwed up and I am personally sorry for not preventing this and fixing this sooner. Please contact us as soon as possible so we can get your info to submit the credit.
Alan Peltier
President
HRE Performance Wheels
Given this, we are going to refund your $150 immediately and will provide something additional for all the hassle. As an HRE customer, we should have dealt with your dissatisfaction from your perspective, not ours and I offer my sincerest apologies. The situation was bad, but we made it worse. We screwed up and I am personally sorry for not preventing this and fixing this sooner. Please contact us as soon as possible so we can get your info to submit the credit.
Alan Peltier
President
HRE Performance Wheels
03-12-2014, 08:03 PM
#27
Instructor
Last week, we all sat around here at HRE looking at the situation, reviewing what had occurred, and we all felt justified in our response and handling of this situation, including me. Unfortunately we lost sight of the fact that you as our customer were not being taken care of in an appropriate manner. Instead of being self-righteous, we should have immediately taken care of your $150 and dealt with any disagreements with other parties separately. I am sorry for that.
Given this, we are going to refund your $150 immediately and will provide something additional for all the hassle. As an HRE customer, we should have dealt with your dissatisfaction from your perspective, not ours and I offer my sincerest apologies. The situation was bad, but we made it worse. We screwed up and I am personally sorry for not preventing this and fixing this sooner. Please contact us as soon as possible so we can get your info to submit the credit.
Alan Peltier
President
HRE Performance Wheels
Given this, we are going to refund your $150 immediately and will provide something additional for all the hassle. As an HRE customer, we should have dealt with your dissatisfaction from your perspective, not ours and I offer my sincerest apologies. The situation was bad, but we made it worse. We screwed up and I am personally sorry for not preventing this and fixing this sooner. Please contact us as soon as possible so we can get your info to submit the credit.
Alan Peltier
President
HRE Performance Wheels
Good job Alan and HRE.
03-12-2014, 08:11 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Why wouldn't OP just send wheels directly back to HRE for an overhaul and repair? Buy some stock wheels cheap and swap it out at a tire shop until you get the refurbished wheels back if you are not mechanically inclined.
Would I expect a labor reimbursement from a dealer if I bought OEM Porsche parts installed at a independent and then had to remove it once a defective part was discovered? There is a reason for dealer support networks. Once you choose to go outside of it, then you need to put your big boy pants on and deal with the consequences.
I think HRE went beyond their responsibilities to help out someone who chose a route that didn't want HRE's help in the first place.
Would I expect a labor reimbursement from a dealer if I bought OEM Porsche parts installed at a independent and then had to remove it once a defective part was discovered? There is a reason for dealer support networks. Once you choose to go outside of it, then you need to put your big boy pants on and deal with the consequences.
I think HRE went beyond their responsibilities to help out someone who chose a route that didn't want HRE's help in the first place.
03-13-2014, 02:21 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
Honestly I think HRE went WAY above and beyond here. They reimbursed you when they shouldn't have had to. For*your* convenience you had your shop fix an issue. You never gave HRE the chance to fix it for you.
While I'm sure they would've reimbursed your shipping costs, you still have to get the wheel to them, how else would they be able to inspect it and fix it for you? You don't have one vehicle large enough to carry 1 wheel so you could get the tire dismounted?
FedEx and UPS will both pick up packages at any address you specify for free. I tend to keep odd shaped boxes around in case I need to ship something. I've also gotten wheel boxes for free from the local wheel/tire place, as they usually just throw them out. They're happy to give them to me.
If you're doing something for your own convenience, outside of the companies warranty, then you should rightfully expect to pay for any and all expense yourself. Things happen, that's why there are warranties. It's up to you whether you want to take advantage of the warranty process.
While I'm sure they would've reimbursed your shipping costs, you still have to get the wheel to them, how else would they be able to inspect it and fix it for you? You don't have one vehicle large enough to carry 1 wheel so you could get the tire dismounted?
FedEx and UPS will both pick up packages at any address you specify for free. I tend to keep odd shaped boxes around in case I need to ship something. I've also gotten wheel boxes for free from the local wheel/tire place, as they usually just throw them out. They're happy to give them to me.
If you're doing something for your own convenience, outside of the companies warranty, then you should rightfully expect to pay for any and all expense yourself. Things happen, that's why there are warranties. It's up to you whether you want to take advantage of the warranty process.
03-13-2014, 04:27 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
That's what I was speaking of, customer relationship. HRE by nature of this act has done itself a good service. I respect the fact that regardless of who is wrong, HRE does value its customers. Its not a matter of who screwed up! Kudos Alan Peltier I guarantee you made more customers with this type of service! I for one will next time consider your products. This type of customer relationship, is a big differentiator over your competition!