Cost of ownership 993 vs 996tt
12-22-2012, 04:06 PM
#31
Burgled
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It exactly is supply and demand- there are way too many 996tt's for sale (therefore the price drops).
Conversely, they aren't making any more air cooled cars, fewer are for sale, add in the fact that some people consider these to be classic, and prices rise.
This thread is about comparing the cost of ownership and 993 costs are much lower due to their appreciation vs the depreciation of the 996tt. Much to the chagrin of some-
Conversely, they aren't making any more air cooled cars, fewer are for sale, add in the fact that some people consider these to be classic, and prices rise.
This thread is about comparing the cost of ownership and 993 costs are much lower due to their appreciation vs the depreciation of the 996tt. Much to the chagrin of some-
12-22-2012, 04:49 PM
#32
RL Community Team
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It's not just a supply issue. There were lots of 996 Turbos unloaded at the leading edge of the economic downturn. And by "unloaded" I mean sold below real value. People who had been making lots of money and spending it on toys suddenly found themselves in financial trouble. There were lots of Turbos dumped at lower than reasonable prices. Those prices have been following the cars ever since. These low price Turbos opened ownership to a wider field of buyers who would not have normally been able to reach the car. This in turn generated more turnover as these owners were more apt to flip their Turbos as the realities of the cost of ownership became apparent. Many of these owners were IMO more inclined to make cosmetic modifications to their cars that other "traditional" owners would not, making those cars harder to sell and leading to further value depression. Many also used the under valued Turbos they were picking up as relatively cheap track cars that could be modified to high power for a relatively low cost. Many of these cars ended up being beat up and not cared for as well as they could have been. These cars, modified and/or tracked, depressed the resale value of the cars.
12-22-2012, 05:39 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
Good call Dock. I started shopping in 2008 when I saw a tiptronic turbo sell for 28 k on eBay. I knew it would be my next car then.
It's not just a supply issue. There were lots of 996 Turbos unloaded at the leading edge of the economic downturn. And by "unloaded" I mean sold below real value. People who had been making lots of money and spending it on toys suddenly found themselves in financial trouble. There were lots of Turbos dumped at lower than reasonable prices. Those prices have been following the cars ever since. These low price Turbos opened ownership to a wider field of buyers who would not have normally been able to reach the car. This in turn generated more turnover as these owners were more apt to flip their Turbos as the realities of the cost of ownership became apparent. Many of these owners were IMO more inclined to make cosmetic modifications to their cars that other "traditional" owners would not, making those cars harder to sell and leading to further value depression. Many also used the under valued Turbos they were picking up as relatively cheap track cars that could be modified to high power for a relatively low cost. Many of these cars ended up being beat up and not cared for as well as they could have been. These cars, modified and/or tracked, depressed the resale value of the cars.
12-22-2012, 05:55 PM
#34
I did think these cars were closer to 200k$ new. However, I don't think 180k$ is that far from 200k$. The same a 18k$ car can be called a 20k$ car. I mean you can split hair all you want, it's the same 10% difference.
If I really wanted to argue, I'd say 180k$ in 2003 is certainly worth 200k$ in today's money. So for the sake of saving face, I'd say I was speaking in constant money.
My whole point got misunderstood by 993 fans who read through my post too quickly. The 993 is/was a great car, for its time. It is now so out dated the only value is in its "classicness". As a performance car, its drivng dynamics and overall performance is way off pace. If that's what rocks your boat, by all means pay for it, your money, your decision. If you buy your 911 for bang for the bucks, I don't think there's a better 911 than the 996tt right now. Heck, I don't think there's a better bang for the buck in the automotive world than the 996tt, except maybe the C6 Z06, but I haven't checked their selling prices lately.
12-22-2012, 06:43 PM
#35
Well I'm from Canada, should have specified it.
I did think these cars were closer to 200k$ new. However, I don't think 180k$ is that far from 200k$. The same a 18k$ car can be called a 20k$ car. I mean you can split hair all you want, it's the same 10% difference.
If I really wanted to argue, I'd say 180k$ in 2003 is certainly worth 200k$ in today's money. So for the sake of saving face, I'd say I was speaking in constant money.
My whole point got misunderstood by 993 fans who read through my post too quickly. The 993 is/was a great car, for its time. It is now so out dated the only value is in its "classicness". As a performance car, its drivng dynamics and overall performance is way off pace. If that's what rocks your boat, by all means pay for it, your money, your decision. If you buy your 911 for bang for the bucks, I don't think there's a better 911 than the 996tt right now. Heck, I don't think there's a better bang for the buck in the automotive world than the 996tt, except maybe the C6 Z06, but I haven't checked their selling prices lately.
I did think these cars were closer to 200k$ new. However, I don't think 180k$ is that far from 200k$. The same a 18k$ car can be called a 20k$ car. I mean you can split hair all you want, it's the same 10% difference.
If I really wanted to argue, I'd say 180k$ in 2003 is certainly worth 200k$ in today's money. So for the sake of saving face, I'd say I was speaking in constant money.
My whole point got misunderstood by 993 fans who read through my post too quickly. The 993 is/was a great car, for its time. It is now so out dated the only value is in its "classicness". As a performance car, its drivng dynamics and overall performance is way off pace. If that's what rocks your boat, by all means pay for it, your money, your decision. If you buy your 911 for bang for the bucks, I don't think there's a better 911 than the 996tt right now. Heck, I don't think there's a better bang for the buck in the automotive world than the 996tt, except maybe the C6 Z06, but I haven't checked their selling prices lately.
I agree. I bought my tt used as owner #2 when owner #1 wanted a 993tt and dumped the car for a song....in 2005 got it for what they go for now....he lost his shirt (investment banker, he had a lot of shirts ...). These cars really depreciated quickly, perhaps too quickly..they should go back up.
The 991 front is looking a little more 996 than 997 to me...so at some point I could see Porsche moving back to a front that is "modern"...why Ferrari can do it and have owners not go nuts and Porsche cannot is just silly.
My prior car was a 993 C4 with a turboS aero kit. It was wonderful to look at and as my first P car, just amazing. But the TT absolutely blows it away in every way, even looks (see picture), save one thing: smell.
Yeah, I know that seems just silly. My TT has natural brown leather and has a wonderful leather aroma...that c4 993 has one thing: oil smell. The funny thing, switching from Rotella t6 to Mobil 1 5w-50 got a better smell back for me...so who knows. The air cooled cars just have a certain smell that I associated with a Porsche (and a vw bug).
In terms of cost: neither is cheap to own for tires, oil changes, etc. For exotics they are dirt cheap. For sports cars, they are no longer more than an M3 or AMG. For a commuter junker, they are expensive. Overall, they really are cheap for what you get. Until something goes:
993:
top end
tires
oil changes
plug changes (the last two are the tough one....)
I have read a lot about 993tt engine issues...my N/A car was rock solid, but a slug compared to either tt. The N/A car is cheaper.
996tt
coolant system
slave issues
pentosin reservoir valve
2nd gear
radio flaked out on me
tires
oil changes
plug changes (you do the sockets for each plug at the same time because labor is quite a bit at a good shop...at least 3 hours...more like 4 or 5).
So I have spent more on the TT than I did on my 993..but I have used it a lot more too. It is probably a wash NA to 996TT...so my guess is the 993 TT is likely to cost more if you actually use it due to the engine needing more $$ statistically.
Which car is the better car: depends. I am happier with my modded 996tt. No way I could justify having as much fun in a 993tt because I consider them more of a collector/look at me car. The 6 is a drive it every day car. A 993TT is a special car...it is almost too special to abuse it. Not so a 996TT....so for that reason, I vote with on the USES IT EVERY DAY side.
Note: I like the rsr sort of look in mine. I find a stock 993tt about equal to a stock 996tt. The rain gutters just ruin the 993 for me. A Ruf 993 is another story.
12-22-2012, 09:11 PM
#37
RL Community Team
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The best 0-60 time for a stock 996Turbo I ever saw reported by a car magazine was 3.9 sec. Why don't you go around telling people that a stock 996 Turbo is a 3.51 sec car in the 0-60 run? After all, that's only 10% faster?
12-22-2012, 09:17 PM
#38
RL Community Team
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Well that would be terrible logic, because of course Porsche doesn't sell new 996 Turbos in today's money. Additionally, you used the word "sold ", which is past tense; "today's" money is present tense. So I'd offer that you were referring to the value of money at the time the car sold new.
12-22-2012, 11:24 PM
#39
Yeah, you made your point, like four times. Didn't you see my ?? But, no matter how many time you repeat yourself, you'll have a hard convincing me that 180k$ is not close to 200k$. I did say that they sold for close to 200k$. And in Canada, they did sell for 200k$.
That's as far off topic as I'll go.
Back on topic, one point that was not mentionned is insurance. I know my 996tt is not really expensive to insure. It might be worth looking into that. Anyone knows if there could be a large gap between the two? Replacement parts for the 993 might make them much more expensive to insure, or not.
?? But, no matter how many time you repeat yourself, you'll have a hard convincing me that 180k$ is not close to 200k$. I did say that they sold for close to 200k$. And in Canada, they did sell for 200k$. That's as far off topic as I'll go.
Back on topic, one point that was not mentionned is insurance. I know my 996tt is not really expensive to insure. It might be worth looking into that. Anyone knows if there could be a large gap between the two? Replacement parts for the 993 might make them much more expensive to insure, or not.
01-03-2013, 01:56 AM
#41
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01-03-2013, 04:21 PM
#43
Racer
I run 0-60 at 3.9 on my stock 996tt tiptronic and I'm a horrible driver launching w/o boost in second gear, lol...so I bet a good driver could hit the 3.51 mark...just saying. 
