BoxheadTim

I'm slowly getting ready with selling my 3.2 Carrera, mainly because it's parked over in the UK and it's not quite old enough to import. Plus, I'm not sure how smart it is to import a RHD Targa.

We are looking at replacing it with a DD-able car, plus I want another 911. AWD is a must out here and it has to be a tiptronic one so the wife can drive it, as she steadfastly refuses to get behind the wheel on any car with a manual transmission.

There might be *very* occasional track/HPDE use but I do have a Miata for that anyway that I'm planning to keep, so there is only a small chance that we'll take it out once or twice to get a better idea what it would handle like closer to the limit of the drivers.

My main question - after spending quite some time reading through this forum -
are there any durability or other known issues with the Tiptronic gearbox that should make me think twice about buying a car equipped with one? This is assuming by-the-book maintenance or better, and I'm referring to technical issues only, not issues of taste.

I do know about the comments people made re the availability and cost of snow tires. This is one of the reasons I'm not sure we want a TT and am still doing my research. The alternative would be to get another sporty AWD car with a flappy paddle gearbox, sell the Miata also and get something ilke an SC or a 964 to track. But I would want to own a 911 turbo at some point in my life before gas becomes too expensive and we all have to drive electric appliances .

Macster

The Tip in the Turbo is built by Diamler-Chrysler and has a rep for being a good tranny.

'course, you want to give the car a thorough test ride/drive and confirm the Tip -- and the rest of the car too -- is in good condition with no issues.

Unless you get paperwork with the car that shows the car has a Tip fluid service I'd budget for that pronto.

The word I get is if the Tip is showing signs of distress a fluid change often just pushes the thing over the edge. 'course if you do nothing the Tip is doomed anyhow though it may take a while longer.

Word is the D-C Tip and the Tip in the NA cars (ZF) are basically the same. Since there are a lot of ZF equipped cars in service most larger metro areas have several shops that can rebuild/repair the Tip should it need it.

As long as you give the car a thorough road test and ensure the Tip is ok I see nothing to fear.

The Turbo in the mountains would be sweet. I've had my Turbo up in your area and in other mountainous/higher elevation areas and a Turbo car can't be beat in these areas.

I mean for goodness sake even at sea level the thing rocks. At elevation.... Toss in AWD and what the heck are you waiting for?

Sincerely,

Macster.

John McM

Not sure how sensitive your budget is, but my recent big servicing included the tip fluid change and I was surprised how much the fluid was. Maybe there's a big mark up in New Zealand but I was charged the equivalent of USD 550 for the fluid alone.

BioBanker

There's tons of used snow wheels around for turbos because C4S' are often driven in the winter. My turbo has a set of winters too. What I love mist about these cars is how usable they are; winter driving is part of that.

nick49

I think a lot of what you paid was the "Porsche" tax. Porsche dealers seem to think all owners are CEOs that don't like to get their hands dirty or know how to wrench.


http://www.planet-9.com/reviews/serv...e-2fflush.html

6 qts ATF, a gasket and filter and 30 minutes.

Macster

If that link is what passes for DIY instructions for an ATF change I'd avoid it.

It is full of wrong info.

Since only a partial fluid change is done the replacement fluid should be Porsche fluid. While the change quantity is approx.4.5l this represents only about half the volume of fluid in the Tip.

Remove drain plug at A. (This A and B below refer to locations on a drawing that I do not have the time to post.)

Drain the fluid.

Replace sealing ring and screw in drain plug. tighten to 22Nm.

A new sealing ring should be used.

Unscrew control screw at B.

Counter with a wrench when loosening/tightening the cap nut for the charging valve.

Screw off cap nut for the charging valve.

A hose is connected to the charging valve and ATF fluid added until the excess fluid runs out the control screw bore.

The PST2 should be connected to the car and the ATF temperature brought up. The Tip shifter is moved to 'P' and the engine idled.

With engine running top up with ATF again until excess runs out from the bore of the ATF control screw.

With the brake pedal depressed change through all selector lever positions remaining in each position for 10 seconds.

The ATF temperature must not be higher than 40C at the start of the test.

Check the ATF level again and top up if necessary.

Replace sealing ring for cap nut and screw cap nut onto the charging valve.

Tighten to 40Nm.

Screw in the ATF control screw with a new sealing ring and tighten to 20Nm.

Note other documents are referenced regarding proper ATF fluid change anf filter replacement which I do not have so the above is not a complete set of instructions for a Tip fluid change let alone a Tip fluid and filter service.

There's a reason a proper ATF fluid change costs a bit of money. It is more than a simple drain and refill of ATF fluid.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Carlo_Carrera

Macster you are passing on some incorrect info yourself.

The DIY link is for a fluid and filter change on a Cayman not a 996TT. A Cayman and TT use completely different automatic transmission units so the those instructions are not wrong they are just not for a TT Tip.

Although the instructions you posted seem complex they are really quite simple and exactly the same procedure that is followed with a Chevy Hydromatic or any almost any other Automatic. The difference is you are just filling the fluid from below via the charging valve and using the top "B" drain plug as a guide rather than the normal dipstick. The whole procedure should only take a qualified Porsche tech no more than 15 minutes to complete. And the ATF fluid in a Porsche Tip is the same fluid used in some Mopars. ZF makes transmissions for many automakers and they all use the same ATF fluid so getting charged more than $10 a quart is a rip off. There is no "special" Porsche transmission fluid.

Lastly changing the filter is super easy. After you drain the fluid simply remove the nuts holding the pan in place and remove it. The filter is held in place by one nut. Remove it, change the filter, replace the pan with a new gasket and follow the refill instructions you posted. If a Porsche tech did a fluid and filter change it should only take an hour.

Macster

The DIY link was posted in a response to a Turbo Tip discussion. The implication to me was the link DIY info was applicable to the Turbo Tip and based on a quick scan of them and compared to the instructions I had before me wrong, wrong enough.

The instructions I posted are what they are. To some they can seem complex to others who work on their cars enough or have enough background just routine.

My point is they are spelled out for a good reason. The Tip is too expensive unit to experiement with trying to find what is the minimum one can get by with in doing a fluid change.

I do not know what the charge is for a Tip fluid change but if one can't or won't do one right it seems far cheaper to me than the alternative.

As for Tip fluid again I not have, were I a Tip owner, I would not have any desire to use my car's Tip as a test bed to confirm internet rumors all Tips use the same fluid.

The Tip is made by ZF or D-C and made to Porsche's specfications. These transmissions appear to do very well even with over 400hp and 400ftlbs of torque being fed to them and do so without any other indications that Porsche screwed up in any way. In another life I'd own a Tip equipped Turbo without hesitation.

The Tip could very well have different components that do better with the Porsche fluid or worse with off the shelf fluid. IIRC the manual transmissions have different synchros and the fluid specification takes this into account so the Tip could be no different and with customization to meet Porsche's requirements have its if fluid needs changed too.

The problem from my point of view is why do I want to try to second guess Porsche, explore alternatives, experiement, see how little I can get by with, how little my car's very expensive Tip can get by with for the sake of a few dollars of fluid?

I mean it is not like Tip fluid gets changed that often. Many own a car and never own it long enough to change the Tip fluid once let alone more than once.

Lastly, Porsche stands behind the Tip and its fluid and its fliud change interval for 50K miles with a new car warranty and up to 100K miles with a CPO warranty.

I certainly am not prepared to take Porshce's place in this regard so I can't/won't suggest anyone leave the Porsche fluid reservation.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Carlo_Carrera

Do you work for Porsche? Because you always seem very keen to tell people that they should leave all servicing to Posche techs when in truth many people could do most of the work themselves when given proper guidance like kind found on this board. You are serving no purpose by always telling people to forget about doing it themselves and just take their car to Porsche service. Especially when you do not seem to work on your own Porsches. Just because you can't handle the work doesn't mean others can't.

Also you don't seem to understand that there is absolutely no difference in the ATF fluid Porsche puts in its Tips and the ATF fluid you can buy at a Walmart. This is a fact, not an opinion. There are no special mysterious parts in the ZF built Porsche tranny. ZF has building transmissions that can handle 500+ hp for decades.

fly2low

back on topic
with my first 996TT, drove it year round with Pirelli snows on when temp stayed below 45 or so. Many trips through the Cascades. Car had great stability and traction - others have referred to it as a mountain goat - in a good way. Most unplowed snow I drove through was 6-7" of powdery snow. With heavy snow, clearance could be an issue. Call me Captain Obvious

Macster

One more off topic response (with my apologies to the OP):

No I do not work for Porsche. I recommend people take their cars to a dealer or to qualified indy unless they know what they are doing.

There are many reasons why I no longer work on my cars. Mainly it is a lack of time and a proper place to work on them and frankly and maybe the most important no desire, although I look forward to doing the brakes on my Turbo when the time comes. I've always done the brakes on my Boxster too.

For many years I worked on my cars and those of family and friends. I'm rather sick of it and prefer to spend my time driving my cars or doing other things that I find more interesting. Yesterday while my Boxster was in for oil/filter service I was driving my Turbo around. I'd much rather be in my Turbo than under my Boxster or even in my Boxster rather than under my Turbo.

For servicing these cars now, it is hard(er) to know what to do: Part of the problem, to me the biggest problem, is Porsche doesn't share detailed servicing procedures for these cars so many are working in the dark, or basing the servicing on what older models required or even what other brands required. Risky.

Porsche dealer techs get in depth training on the various models taking week long classes several times a year. I've asked about attending a class or two, at my own expense, but I was told the classes are not for the general public.

If someone really knows what he's doing or is prepared to learn the right way or simply chooses to forge ahead regardless he'll ignore my advice and go his own way. That's up the individual.

A modern Porsche is the wrong car on which to to learn to become a shade tree mechanic but if one wants to I'm not going to stand in his way.

As for the Porsche ATF fluid being the same as whatever. If you believe this then use whatever in place of the Porsche ATF fluid.

If you advise others to use I would expect them to ask you to supply your basis for making this statement so they can make an informed decision.

Or if they choose to accept it as fact and act upon it then they have to live with the consequences, which may be nothing more than a slightly lower service cost arising from using a lower cost fluid.

I hope that is all they have to live with.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Macster

Clearance would be my biggest concern. Deep snow to be sure, but also in some winter areas cars/vehicles shed rather large clumps of frozen slush/snow that gather/collect behind the wheel wells.

These can be substantial enough, hard enough, to the point the Turbo's low air dam could suffer some damage even if the snow depth wasn't a problem.

Also, I recall in driving in snow areas in the winter while streets were plowed, cleared, driveways had sometimes rather large mounds of snow that one had to navigate to get into/out of a parking lot, sometimes turning across road lanes that the mounds of snow/slush that were present, even though mounds of snow left by plows at one's own driveway entrance.

Sincerely,

Macster.

SSST

Go for it. We tend to look down our noses at tips, just because they don't provide the same connectedness that the 6 sp does. That said, the tip is about as good as it gets for non-DCT autos.

Get some winter tires and wheels and avoid deep snow.

Carlo_Carrera

Sorry, but I do not believe anything you have written above..

Also instead of not believing what I say about ATF fluids why don't you do a little research on the subject before being so convinced I am wrong. The OEM ATF product in a 996TT tranny is Shell ATF 3403-M115. Start with that.

And doing an ATF fluid and filter change yourself will save you a lot more than just the cost of the fluid.

Carlo_Carrera

I use my 996TT with a Tip in the winters here in the northeast and the four wheel drive works great. Just get a set of spare rims that are 10 inch wide in the rear rather than the stock 11 inch and get some good M+S tires and you will be fine.